WEBVTT NOTE Open Interest — arthur-mercuryo. Draft: automatic transcript (faster-whisper small.en) of the released edit, automatic speaker assignment (resemblyzer, 2 speakers), corrections applied from the editorial glossary and OCR of the burned-in captions. Not yet reviewed line by line. 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.580 Amazing. Welcome to Panoramic Content Suite, Singapore edition, 2 00:00:04.940 --> 00:00:08.280 Alongside Token2049. We have first day of F1 starting tonight, 3 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:13.780 But before that, Arthur, chief business officer at Mercuryo took the 4 00:00:13.780 --> 00:00:17.680 Valuable time out of his day to join us today. So thank you for stopping by. 5 00:00:17.700 --> 00:00:18.540 Thanks for having me. 6 00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:20.540 Amazing. To kick things off, 7 00:00:20.900 --> 00:00:23.740 I think I just wanted to kind of let the audience know who you are. 8 00:00:23.900 --> 00:00:27.720 Don't mind sharing a bit about yourself, how you ended up at Mercuryo today. 9 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:33.220 Sure. I used to work in TradFi before crypto and, 10 00:00:33.240 --> 00:00:36.760 Yeah, just, spend like a 12 months investment banking firm that didn't really 11 00:00:36.760 --> 00:00:41.900 Like it. And then I met like a Mercuryo founders and just joined right away. 12 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:46.300 So the simple idea was like just to build Stripe for crypto like seven years 13 00:00:46.300 --> 00:00:50.900 Ago in 2019. So it's pretty like a while back. And, yeah, I mean, 14 00:00:50.920 --> 00:00:53.440 Like we started like a pretty early, I guess, 15 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:57.120 Like in the stablecoins and the crypto payments and the infrastructure for 16 00:00:57.120 --> 00:01:00.320 Enterprises, but now like it's just, I guess we can on the mainstream. 17 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.040 Yeah. Yeah. I think it's like a little too much. 18 00:01:04.040 --> 00:01:07.460 How much conversations going around about stablecoins payments, 19 00:01:07.980 --> 00:01:11.720 But it is like an obvious use case for blockchain crypto, 20 00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:16.420 Global payments infrastructure. I think initially I've been around crypto for 21 00:01:16.420 --> 00:01:20.300 A few years now, but initially Ethereum was too slow. Gas fees are too high, 22 00:01:20.420 --> 00:01:25.180 But technology is finally there. Now it's about just adoption, regulatory, 23 00:01:25.740 --> 00:01:30.540 Regulatory adoption as well, across different jurisdictions, but yeah, 24 00:01:30.560 --> 00:01:32.440 Super exciting. And, 25 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:36.580 If you can explain a little bit more about what Mercuryo specifically is, 26 00:01:36.580 --> 00:01:40.120 Is doing, and yeah, 27 00:01:40.140 --> 00:01:42.960 What you guys are looking to achieve with your product. 28 00:01:43.280 --> 00:01:47.760 Yeah. I think like simple way to explain what Mercuryo is, 29 00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:52.340 We're like a software company with a banking like crypto and all sorts of 30 00:01:52.340 --> 00:01:54.800 Licenses to move money around the different countries. 31 00:01:55.300 --> 00:01:57.180 And, different blockchains banks. 32 00:01:58.180 --> 00:02:01.980 So we started with a simple protocol on and off ramp, which was like not a big, 33 00:02:01.980 --> 00:02:05.480 Like actually, narrative back then in 2019, 2020, 34 00:02:05.480 --> 00:02:08.680 Lots of people didn't even have this sermon. They didn't know what's like on 35 00:02:08.680 --> 00:02:12.020 And off ramp. I guess like, we had like a big window, like a three, 36 00:02:12.180 --> 00:02:16.200 Three years at least where we just captured like a market share with lots 37 00:02:16.200 --> 00:02:20.260 Of like centralized exchanges wallets, like the centralized exchanges during 38 00:02:20.260 --> 00:02:23.500 DeFi summer. I think that was a peak like for us, like an all time high. 39 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:26.780 We developed like lots of new other products frameworks, 40 00:02:26.880 --> 00:02:30.340 How to work with crypto native enterprises, especially with the DeFi 41 00:02:30.340 --> 00:02:33.460 Protocols, like, but you know, like guys like Uniswap and stuff like 42 00:02:33.460 --> 00:02:36.120 That 1inch and, self custodial wallets. 43 00:02:36.300 --> 00:02:39.700 They never had like a payments inside the app. So like, you know, 44 00:02:39.700 --> 00:02:44.300 Lots of neobanks, fintechs, like already work like around, I don't know, 45 00:02:44.300 --> 00:02:45.820 Different like countries like in Europe and us. 46 00:02:46.000 --> 00:02:49.620 So people were using like them for daily life, but like crypto crypto 47 00:02:49.620 --> 00:02:54.640 Wallets, what I think it was like, kind of just a very degen use cases 48 00:02:54.640 --> 00:02:58.560 Where like people just using DeFi and trying to access different 49 00:02:58.560 --> 00:03:02.900 Protocols like yield and farm different protocols. So I think like for 50 00:03:02.900 --> 00:03:06.060 Us, yeah, like starting with the on and off ramp with a crypto native 51 00:03:06.060 --> 00:03:08.860 Ecosystem and you know, like build infrastructure for them was like the 52 00:03:08.860 --> 00:03:13.060 First step. And, like in the recent years, like I think like last 53 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:15.340 Two or three years we were partnering with lots of enterprises, 54 00:03:15.340 --> 00:03:19.720 Traditional, you know, payment companies like Visa, Mastercard, 55 00:03:19.960 --> 00:03:24.260 Revolut and guys like that trying to build the new kind of like self 56 00:03:24.260 --> 00:03:28.100 Custodial payment infrastructure on top of what they already have with 57 00:03:28.100 --> 00:03:31.740 The banks, with the fintechs. And, you know, like some of them 58 00:03:31.740 --> 00:03:34.840 Are launching completely new, like a web3 subsidiaries, which is 59 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:37.540 Like different products. They still have the traditional payments, 60 00:03:37.660 --> 00:03:40.410 Traditional business in parallel, like traditional banking, but they're 61 00:03:40.410 --> 00:03:44.550 Trying to access like, I know, cross border, like, cheap 62 00:03:44.550 --> 00:03:48.470 Sent, you know, fast transfers the same day. And, I think 63 00:03:48.470 --> 00:03:50.470 Blockchain is stablecoins is the way to see it. 64 00:03:50.470 --> 00:03:53.950 Yeah. Yeah. So it sounds like the core unlock that you guys are 65 00:03:53.950 --> 00:03:57.330 Initially working on was enabling crypto holders, crypto 66 00:03:57.330 --> 00:04:02.670 Users to pay for real world goods, before the two worlds, 67 00:04:02.710 --> 00:04:05.090 You know, I think before there's a lot more friction to move 68 00:04:05.090 --> 00:04:09.470 Assets from on chain, off chain, vice versa. So you guys 69 00:04:09.470 --> 00:04:12.890 Enabled payments with crypto. And now it sounds like you guys are 70 00:04:12.890 --> 00:04:15.590 Working on the other side of things where, you're working 71 00:04:15.590 --> 00:04:18.970 With infrastructure partners of traditional finance payments 72 00:04:18.970 --> 00:04:25.190 Platforms and, making crypto, the base integration into 73 00:04:25.190 --> 00:04:28.830 Their infrastructure so that, you know, you don't need to 74 00:04:28.830 --> 00:04:31.810 On-ramp off-ramp. It's just part of the, the base 75 00:04:31.810 --> 00:04:34.710 Infrastructure system, on a high level as, as 76 00:04:34.710 --> 00:04:37.270 Outsider. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, honestly, it's not like 77 00:04:37.270 --> 00:04:41.150 The sexiest like, business to do in terms of like the 78 00:04:41.150 --> 00:04:44.750 Awareness. Not many people, like I heard about the, you 79 00:04:44.750 --> 00:04:47.510 Know, like a company or like, heard about the, I guess 80 00:04:47.510 --> 00:04:49.630 Like outside of the crypto world, right? So like not many 81 00:04:49.630 --> 00:04:54.210 People, from the user consumer perspective, like they 82 00:04:54.210 --> 00:04:55.910 Know like what they use because like lots of the 83 00:04:55.910 --> 00:04:59.310 Products are just pure API's and it's embedded directly into 84 00:04:59.310 --> 00:05:02.090 Your experience with your, I dunno, like, your trust 85 00:05:02.090 --> 00:05:03.930 Wallet or Phantom wallet when you're buying crypto with 86 00:05:03.930 --> 00:05:06.390 Apple Pay, you don't really see who's like providing this 87 00:05:06.390 --> 00:05:09.670 Product. So yeah, I guess like as all of the 88 00:05:09.670 --> 00:05:12.350 Infrastructure, it should be like hidden leave somewhere 89 00:05:12.350 --> 00:05:16.170 Like, you know, like behind the scenes and, that's 90 00:05:16.170 --> 00:05:19.150 The whole idea. So like, I think the traditional 91 00:05:19.150 --> 00:05:21.590 Finance works the same way. Like there's lots of 92 00:05:21.590 --> 00:05:23.450 Corresponding banks. Like when you send transfer from 93 00:05:23.450 --> 00:05:26.170 Singapore to us, for example, it goes like to like, 94 00:05:26.650 --> 00:05:28.790 Who may be like three, like, different banks, like 95 00:05:28.790 --> 00:05:31.910 Locally, domestically, like globally. And you have a 96 00:05:31.910 --> 00:05:35.190 Swift, SWIFT system. Yeah. Like the same when you 97 00:05:35.190 --> 00:05:37.770 Send transactions from American banks, some of them 98 00:05:37.770 --> 00:05:39.650 Like just routed through like JP Morgan, some of 99 00:05:39.650 --> 00:05:41.770 Them routed from other corresponding banks, but you 100 00:05:41.770 --> 00:05:43.370 Don't really know like who's under underwriting 101 00:05:43.830 --> 00:05:47.130 Transaction for you. I guess like the same you 102 00:05:47.130 --> 00:05:49.150 Can see right now, like on the blockchain, when you 103 00:05:49.150 --> 00:05:52.630 Just didn't swap on like a defy protocol, you 104 00:05:52.630 --> 00:05:55.010 Probably, yeah, you can just trace the whole thing 105 00:05:55.010 --> 00:05:58.490 Down, but like simple, like, I guess like average 106 00:05:58.490 --> 00:06:01.630 Users, they don't really kind of like track these 107 00:06:01.630 --> 00:06:03.530 Things. They don't really want to know it. They 108 00:06:03.530 --> 00:06:05.570 Just want to have like in 10, I don't know, like go 109 00:06:05.570 --> 00:06:09.330 From asset A to asset B. So like, yeah, I mean, for 110 00:06:09.330 --> 00:06:11.190 Us is like more about like building use cases, 111 00:06:11.210 --> 00:06:13.550 Like talking to like different people, 112 00:06:13.610 --> 00:06:16.370 Enterprises like, we, we see a lot of interest 113 00:06:16.370 --> 00:06:18.730 Right now in like a tokenized deposits. So we 114 00:06:18.730 --> 00:06:21.810 Started with a simple like bank to crypto 115 00:06:21.810 --> 00:06:24.110 Transition. And the use cases were like around 116 00:06:24.110 --> 00:06:26.390 Like more speculative, like things like 117 00:06:26.390 --> 00:06:28.770 Investments, like investing in like a crypto assets. 118 00:06:29.390 --> 00:06:31.970 But for, for now, I think like, it's more 119 00:06:31.970 --> 00:06:35.550 About like moving the money and it's like mostly 120 00:06:35.550 --> 00:06:39.730 Payments, like a FinTech use cases. Also 121 00:06:39.730 --> 00:06:43.870 Interesting, like love our partners, like wallets 122 00:06:43.870 --> 00:06:46.010 And exchanges, they were like primarily focusing 123 00:06:46.010 --> 00:06:48.290 On trading themselves. So they were like, in 124 00:06:48.290 --> 00:06:50.590 Trading, like, I don't offer another, you know, 125 00:06:50.590 --> 00:06:54.230 Like products like defy, like, primitives, 126 00:06:54.230 --> 00:06:57.750 Like yield, you know, like, or like, 127 00:06:57.790 --> 00:07:00.110 Liquidity provision and like, I don't know, 128 00:07:00.110 --> 00:07:03.250 Just, swaps in general between like, 129 00:07:03.250 --> 00:07:06.070 Speak like volatile assets. So now, like you 130 00:07:06.070 --> 00:07:09.510 See, you know, like they're maturing into 131 00:07:09.510 --> 00:07:10.970 Like more like a neobank and FinTech 132 00:07:10.970 --> 00:07:13.550 Applications, like the launching crypto cards, 133 00:07:13.910 --> 00:07:15.490 The luncheon, like a bank account. So you can 134 00:07:15.490 --> 00:07:17.310 Basically do everything with, with your 135 00:07:17.310 --> 00:07:19.570 Crypto wallet. I wouldn't say it's mainstream, 136 00:07:19.570 --> 00:07:23.690 Though, to be honest, like, you like as a 137 00:07:23.690 --> 00:07:25.430 Crypto user, like you probably heard about 138 00:07:25.430 --> 00:07:27.530 Like Phantom, but like as a normal user, 139 00:07:27.530 --> 00:07:29.610 Like that never traded meme coins, for 140 00:07:29.610 --> 00:07:32.190 Example. Yeah, like, I don't think you 141 00:07:32.190 --> 00:07:33.850 Heard about the wallet or like you used it 142 00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:36.190 Before, or you will use it. And like, I think 143 00:07:36.190 --> 00:07:37.890 What's interesting happening, like, we all 144 00:07:37.890 --> 00:07:39.950 Thought, like, in our promise, like, as a 145 00:07:39.950 --> 00:07:41.470 Company, like, I think at some point, we had 146 00:07:41.470 --> 00:07:43.530 A mission, like, every, every single wallet 147 00:07:43.530 --> 00:07:45.550 Is like an entry to web3 world. And 148 00:07:45.550 --> 00:07:47.130 Like, that's, that's the world where we 149 00:07:47.130 --> 00:07:48.730 Want to be. That's the most perfect, 150 00:07:48.730 --> 00:07:50.970 Like, culmination of the financial 151 00:07:50.970 --> 00:07:52.510 System, like how it should be, how it 152 00:07:52.510 --> 00:07:53.830 Should look like from the user experience. 153 00:07:54.390 --> 00:07:56.810 But now we see, like, it took a 154 00:07:56.810 --> 00:07:59.110 While for them to adapt like a FinTech 155 00:07:59.110 --> 00:08:01.670 Products. And, it's all like due to 156 00:08:01.670 --> 00:08:03.830 Regulation, maybe like some other, you 157 00:08:03.830 --> 00:08:06.470 Know, like, compliance parts and, 158 00:08:06.570 --> 00:08:08.490 You know, infrastructure, FinTech 159 00:08:08.490 --> 00:08:11.010 Availability in some countries. But like, 160 00:08:11.010 --> 00:08:12.370 You also see like traditional 161 00:08:12.370 --> 00:08:14.770 Companies like PayPal, Western Union, 162 00:08:15.130 --> 00:08:17.270 Like, MoneyGram, they'll also like 163 00:08:17.270 --> 00:08:18.730 Launching crypto cards, you know, crypto 164 00:08:18.730 --> 00:08:20.930 Wallets, on-ramps. 165 00:08:21.150 --> 00:08:22.310 Are they, are they as well? 166 00:08:22.430 --> 00:08:24.490 Yeah. Yeah. Like, for example, like, 167 00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:26.990 Like it all starts with different pieces. 168 00:08:26.990 --> 00:08:30.250 Like, you know, like, Western Union, 169 00:08:30.590 --> 00:08:32.230 They launched the stablecoin card 170 00:08:32.230 --> 00:08:34.930 First with rain. And, the card is, 171 00:08:34.930 --> 00:08:37.450 Denominated like in the stable 172 00:08:37.450 --> 00:08:40.650 Coin USDPT that issued by, 173 00:08:40.870 --> 00:08:42.170 Anchorage Digital Bank, like they 174 00:08:42.170 --> 00:08:46.410 Licensed the US issuer. And, they 175 00:08:46.410 --> 00:08:48.150 Launched this first. And like, when you 176 00:08:48.150 --> 00:08:49.570 Have a wallets, when you have like a 177 00:08:49.570 --> 00:08:50.690 Crypto wallet and you have a crypto 178 00:08:50.690 --> 00:08:53.950 Card, but like the, all of the fonts, 179 00:08:54.010 --> 00:08:55.790 All of the user channels are still like 180 00:08:55.790 --> 00:08:57.730 In the traditional like banking system, 181 00:08:58.170 --> 00:08:59.770 You need to find a way how to move it 182 00:08:59.770 --> 00:09:01.170 Into this card, right? So how do you 183 00:09:01.170 --> 00:09:04.230 Top up this card? So like, and it's 184 00:09:04.230 --> 00:09:05.630 Card specifically denominated and 185 00:09:05.630 --> 00:09:08.070 USDPT on Solana. So it's not even 186 00:09:08.070 --> 00:09:09.870 Like a cross chain. It's like, 187 00:09:10.010 --> 00:09:11.610 Specific blockchain, specific stable 188 00:09:11.610 --> 00:09:14.950 Coins. And, you know, they might 189 00:09:14.950 --> 00:09:17.070 Have like a crypto users, but like, 190 00:09:17.070 --> 00:09:18.310 I think majority of their users are 191 00:09:18.310 --> 00:09:20.050 Just enormous. Like how do we bridge 192 00:09:20.050 --> 00:09:21.210 These guys? Like, how do we make 193 00:09:21.210 --> 00:09:23.130 Them use like a cross-border, 194 00:09:23.250 --> 00:09:24.550 Payments like with the stablecoins? 195 00:09:24.570 --> 00:09:25.650 Right. So they all need like 196 00:09:25.650 --> 00:09:27.010 This kind of like a FinTech stack. 197 00:09:27.150 --> 00:09:28.430 Like just everybody starts from 198 00:09:28.430 --> 00:09:30.090 Different angles. I think like, 199 00:09:30.430 --> 00:09:31.630 Crypto cards right now is mostly 200 00:09:31.630 --> 00:09:33.590 Like, you know, like a 201 00:09:33.590 --> 00:09:35.510 Trojan horse enabling like, 202 00:09:35.510 --> 00:09:37.210 All of the other things I can, you 203 00:09:37.210 --> 00:09:38.370 Know, like a crypto payment use 204 00:09:38.370 --> 00:09:40.470 Cases for financial institutions and 205 00:09:40.470 --> 00:09:42.370 The traditional like, enterprises. 206 00:09:42.870 --> 00:09:44.450 Yeah. Yeah. I would imagine your 207 00:09:44.450 --> 00:09:48.430 Marginal user, doesn't really 208 00:09:48.430 --> 00:09:50.250 Hold stablecoins or crypto, right? 209 00:09:50.470 --> 00:09:51.750 I think your marginal crypto, a 210 00:09:51.750 --> 00:09:54.270 Credit card user. So I'd 211 00:09:54.270 --> 00:09:56.010 Imagine, you know, we, we did have 212 00:09:56.010 --> 00:09:57.190 Like companies like Ethena Pay on 213 00:09:57.190 --> 00:09:59.210 Here out of their initial customer 214 00:09:59.210 --> 00:10:01.550 Base or crypto natives, but it 215 00:10:01.550 --> 00:10:03.250 Seems like, you know, 216 00:10:03.330 --> 00:10:04.510 Samsung just a couple of days ago, 217 00:10:04.510 --> 00:10:05.370 Just announced that they're 218 00:10:05.370 --> 00:10:07.470 Integrating Solana for the holding 219 00:10:07.470 --> 00:10:11.310 And sending us DC, natively 220 00:10:11.310 --> 00:10:13.250 Integrated into their phones. 221 00:10:13.370 --> 00:10:14.190 It seems like this is going to 222 00:10:14.190 --> 00:10:16.870 Be a start of just like, it's 223 00:10:16.870 --> 00:10:20.710 Going to be a baseline given that, 224 00:10:20.710 --> 00:10:23.150 Crypto support stablecoin 225 00:10:23.150 --> 00:10:24.950 Support will be integrated into 226 00:10:24.950 --> 00:10:27.130 Your everyday lives. And I guess 227 00:10:27.130 --> 00:10:28.350 It's just a matter of time before 228 00:10:28.350 --> 00:10:29.770 People just get used to it. Or 229 00:10:29.770 --> 00:10:31.290 Maybe it's just so seamless that 230 00:10:31.290 --> 00:10:32.930 You don't even notice, the 231 00:10:33.410 --> 00:10:35.730 Transactions, the remittances, 232 00:10:35.890 --> 00:10:37.290 Et cetera, or just happening on 233 00:10:37.290 --> 00:10:38.870 Happening automatically. You just 234 00:10:38.870 --> 00:10:39.770 See numbers on your phone, 235 00:10:39.770 --> 00:10:40.510 Right? I think that's the 236 00:10:40.510 --> 00:10:41.490 Ideal case instead of signing 237 00:10:41.490 --> 00:10:42.770 Transactions, smart contracts, 238 00:10:42.910 --> 00:10:45.790 Things like that. Yeah, yeah. 239 00:10:45.870 --> 00:10:48.310 So super excited. I'm hoping the 240 00:10:48.310 --> 00:10:50.370 Acceleration of this adoption is 241 00:10:50.370 --> 00:10:51.390 Going to happen sooner rather 242 00:10:51.390 --> 00:10:53.050 Than later, but we are set 243 00:10:53.050 --> 00:10:54.790 At the finally getting there and 244 00:10:54.790 --> 00:10:56.510 The ball is not going to stop 245 00:10:56.510 --> 00:10:57.990 Rolling. Yeah. You know, it's, 246 00:10:58.050 --> 00:10:59.430 It's funny that like I mentioned 247 00:10:59.430 --> 00:11:00.330 Something because I was just 248 00:11:00.330 --> 00:11:01.670 Thinking about the adoption. Like 249 00:11:01.670 --> 00:11:02.750 Everybody's talking about like 250 00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:04.630 Apple or like Google, they're 251 00:11:04.630 --> 00:11:05.570 Going to like just launch the 252 00:11:05.570 --> 00:11:07.470 Stablecoins. They want 253 00:11:07.470 --> 00:11:08.710 Stablecoins. You know, once 254 00:11:08.710 --> 00:11:10.750 The legislation passed, you 255 00:11:10.750 --> 00:11:12.110 Know, like they have like full 256 00:11:12.110 --> 00:11:13.470 Green lights, you like basically 257 00:11:13.470 --> 00:11:14.370 See whatever they want with 258 00:11:14.370 --> 00:11:16.510 Stablecoins. So the, it sounds 259 00:11:16.510 --> 00:11:17.550 And it feels right now, 260 00:11:17.550 --> 00:11:18.630 Like, because, you know, like 261 00:11:18.630 --> 00:11:19.910 There's definitely a regulation 262 00:11:19.910 --> 00:11:20.970 About stablecoins, like 263 00:11:20.970 --> 00:11:22.050 Everywhere, like in Europe, in 264 00:11:22.050 --> 00:11:24.630 US, like in Southeast Asia. 265 00:11:24.630 --> 00:11:27.690 It sounds like, the, there 266 00:11:27.690 --> 00:11:28.910 Wouldn't be like any difference 267 00:11:28.910 --> 00:11:30.410 Between like a USD, for example, 268 00:11:30.610 --> 00:11:32.730 And USDC from the compliance 269 00:11:32.730 --> 00:11:33.810 Perspective. So it's going to 270 00:11:33.810 --> 00:11:35.950 Be the same balance, the same, 271 00:11:35.950 --> 00:11:38.690 You know, like, policy for 272 00:11:38.690 --> 00:11:40.230 Users to onboard with the 273 00:11:40.230 --> 00:11:40.950 Bank or the, with the 274 00:11:40.950 --> 00:11:43.710 Financial application. And 275 00:11:43.710 --> 00:11:44.750 It's just not happening like 276 00:11:44.750 --> 00:11:46.350 Tomorrow, like maybe like next 277 00:11:46.350 --> 00:11:47.790 Year, but it's not the case 278 00:11:47.790 --> 00:11:48.870 Because like, there's lots of 279 00:11:48.870 --> 00:11:49.930 Pieces that need to be like 280 00:11:49.930 --> 00:11:52.770 Done before. And, it's all 281 00:11:52.770 --> 00:11:53.710 Around like also like 282 00:11:53.710 --> 00:11:55.090 Rebuilding or like building on 283 00:11:55.090 --> 00:11:56.810 Top of like a legacy, you know, 284 00:11:57.190 --> 00:11:58.970 Infrastructure. And, you 285 00:11:58.970 --> 00:11:59.990 Know, like there's lots of 286 00:11:59.990 --> 00:12:01.330 Plumbing. There's lots of 287 00:12:01.330 --> 00:12:02.710 Things around identity. There 288 00:12:02.710 --> 00:12:03.710 Was like identity companies 289 00:12:03.710 --> 00:12:04.810 That are doing everything on 290 00:12:04.810 --> 00:12:06.550 The blockchain. Like, I 291 00:12:06.550 --> 00:12:08.350 Think Solana, what Solana 292 00:12:08.350 --> 00:12:09.550 Did great with Samsung Wallet 293 00:12:09.550 --> 00:12:10.370 Is just, you know, like the 294 00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:11.970 Base layer. So like now like 295 00:12:11.970 --> 00:12:13.090 The, you know, the 296 00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:14.230 Samsung Wallet supports like a 297 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:15.730 Blockchain and it's in Solana 298 00:12:15.730 --> 00:12:17.450 As fast, you know, like it's 299 00:12:17.450 --> 00:12:19.450 Great for payments. You 300 00:12:19.450 --> 00:12:21.870 Know, like users, I suspect 301 00:12:21.870 --> 00:12:23.290 They also will use a wallet. So 302 00:12:23.290 --> 00:12:24.150 They don't really, I don't 303 00:12:24.150 --> 00:12:25.030 Know who they use for the 304 00:12:25.030 --> 00:12:25.830 Wallet infrastructure, but 305 00:12:25.830 --> 00:12:27.110 There must be someone like 306 00:12:27.110 --> 00:12:28.370 Either Privy or Turnkey or 307 00:12:28.370 --> 00:12:30.450 Somebody else. So, there's 308 00:12:30.450 --> 00:12:31.490 Lots of plumbing that we don't 309 00:12:31.490 --> 00:12:32.890 Really see, but I think it's 310 00:12:32.890 --> 00:12:34.390 Great. Like, narrative is 311 00:12:34.390 --> 00:12:35.330 Great announcements. Like, you 312 00:12:35.330 --> 00:12:36.230 Know, now like you have 313 00:12:36.230 --> 00:12:37.870 Stablecoins inside like 314 00:12:37.870 --> 00:12:39.370 Samsung Wallet and, you 315 00:12:39.370 --> 00:12:40.650 Know, soon probably Apple 316 00:12:40.650 --> 00:12:41.910 Wallet as well. There's lots 317 00:12:41.910 --> 00:12:43.870 Of like rumors about it. 318 00:12:44.170 --> 00:12:45.290 We'll see which chain goes 319 00:12:45.290 --> 00:12:46.870 On that wall at first. I'm 320 00:12:46.870 --> 00:12:49.170 Curious. Yeah. Yeah. And 321 00:12:49.170 --> 00:12:49.750 I don't know if you're 322 00:12:49.750 --> 00:12:51.110 Hearing any specific rumors. 323 00:12:51.890 --> 00:12:53.850 Not really, not really. 324 00:12:54.110 --> 00:12:55.390 Okay. Okay. Next podcast. 325 00:12:55.570 --> 00:12:57.770 Next post. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. 326 00:12:57.850 --> 00:13:00.890 Yeah. I think the obvious 327 00:13:00.890 --> 00:13:03.810 Use case is, is being pursued 328 00:13:03.810 --> 00:13:05.250 By some of the smartest 329 00:13:05.250 --> 00:13:06.410 People, startups in the 330 00:13:06.410 --> 00:13:07.110 Industry as well as 331 00:13:07.110 --> 00:13:08.950 Incumbents. But I do want to 332 00:13:08.950 --> 00:13:10.430 Touch on what's coming up 333 00:13:10.430 --> 00:13:11.790 Next, the future coming few 334 00:13:11.790 --> 00:13:12.970 Years. And part of the 335 00:13:12.970 --> 00:13:13.970 Conversation is obviously 336 00:13:14.470 --> 00:13:15.550 Artificial intelligence or 337 00:13:15.550 --> 00:13:16.530 Super intelligence, whatever 338 00:13:16.530 --> 00:13:17.950 You might want to call it. 339 00:13:17.950 --> 00:13:20.570 And, how your personal 340 00:13:20.570 --> 00:13:21.770 Agents can manage payments 341 00:13:21.770 --> 00:13:23.710 For you. Kind of 342 00:13:24.470 --> 00:13:26.770 Changing the, the dynamics 343 00:13:26.770 --> 00:13:28.430 Of payments in general and 344 00:13:28.430 --> 00:13:30.150 Our never our everyday 345 00:13:30.150 --> 00:13:32.070 Lives. Curious to hear about 346 00:13:32.070 --> 00:13:33.690 What you're seeing in that 347 00:13:33.690 --> 00:13:34.750 Front. Are you working 348 00:13:34.750 --> 00:13:35.790 With some companies or 349 00:13:35.790 --> 00:13:36.950 What do you predict the 350 00:13:36.950 --> 00:13:38.430 Feature of agentic 351 00:13:38.430 --> 00:13:39.850 Payments for AI will 352 00:13:39.850 --> 00:13:41.130 Bring? Yeah. This is 353 00:13:41.130 --> 00:13:41.950 Super interesting topic 354 00:13:41.950 --> 00:13:43.150 Because like, I think 355 00:13:43.150 --> 00:13:44.410 Somebody mentioned it 356 00:13:44.410 --> 00:13:45.930 Yesterday, like on a 357 00:13:45.930 --> 00:13:49.290 Panel, that basically 358 00:13:49.290 --> 00:13:51.110 We expected agents to use 359 00:13:51.110 --> 00:13:52.550 Crypto, like, and we built 360 00:13:52.550 --> 00:13:53.410 For them, like, like 361 00:13:53.410 --> 00:13:54.870 Crypto wallets, 362 00:13:54.950 --> 00:13:55.970 Programmable payment 363 00:13:55.970 --> 00:13:57.810 Infrastructure, 364 00:13:58.310 --> 00:13:59.590 Interoperable, like, 365 00:13:59.750 --> 00:14:00.670 Infrastructure for the 366 00:14:00.670 --> 00:14:02.930 Blockchains. And, you 367 00:14:02.930 --> 00:14:03.690 All see, like, they are 368 00:14:03.690 --> 00:14:04.810 Just using like normal 369 00:14:04.810 --> 00:14:06.270 Payment stack, right? Yeah. 370 00:14:06.290 --> 00:14:07.270 Like, just the normal 371 00:14:07.270 --> 00:14:08.250 Cards and all not good 372 00:14:08.250 --> 00:14:10.170 Crypto cards. And, 373 00:14:10.650 --> 00:14:11.110 Yeah, I think it was 374 00:14:11.110 --> 00:14:11.630 Kind of like just 375 00:14:11.630 --> 00:14:12.510 Interesting. Like everybody 376 00:14:12.510 --> 00:14:14.690 Was like kind of, not 377 00:14:14.690 --> 00:14:16.130 Expecting that. And they're 378 00:14:16.130 --> 00:14:17.310 Like, how do we, how do 379 00:14:17.310 --> 00:14:19.570 We like behind? And, 380 00:14:20.690 --> 00:14:21.350 Yeah, I think it's 381 00:14:21.350 --> 00:14:22.770 Interesting because like 382 00:14:22.770 --> 00:14:24.470 Agents, like in my 383 00:14:24.470 --> 00:14:25.510 Opinion, they should run 384 00:14:25.510 --> 00:14:27.110 On crypto. Like it's just 385 00:14:27.110 --> 00:14:29.170 A better, just 386 00:14:29.170 --> 00:14:30.030 Progressed, like better 387 00:14:30.030 --> 00:14:31.330 From the, it's 388 00:14:31.330 --> 00:14:32.590 Programmable. It's 389 00:14:32.590 --> 00:14:33.490 Automated. Lots of the 390 00:14:33.490 --> 00:14:34.430 Things like, they're 391 00:14:34.430 --> 00:14:35.730 Just abstracted from the 392 00:14:35.730 --> 00:14:36.590 User. The first 393 00:14:36.590 --> 00:14:37.410 Principles perspective. 394 00:14:37.690 --> 00:14:39.050 Exactly. Yeah. So, and 395 00:14:39.050 --> 00:14:39.890 That's the, that's the 396 00:14:39.890 --> 00:14:40.810 Whole goal. Why people 397 00:14:40.810 --> 00:14:42.790 Using agents like I used 398 00:14:42.790 --> 00:14:44.010 Instinct for like moving 399 00:14:44.010 --> 00:14:45.230 Out from my apartment 400 00:14:45.850 --> 00:14:46.870 While I was like another 401 00:14:46.870 --> 00:14:48.850