WEBVTT NOTE Open Interest — heslin-kim-zenith. Draft: text from the editor-approved caption file (S16 approved-corrections.srt, 22 Oct) re-timed to the approved DSL cut by word alignment against ASR of the cut (95% word match). 24:21–28:18 is not in the approved caption file (segment added in the edit): text taken from the editor's burned-in captions (OCR, 4 fps) checked against two independent ASR passes (small.en, medium.en); three words remain [unclear]. Speaker labels automatic (resemblyzer, 2 speakers). 1 00:00:00.740 --> 00:00:03.220 So welcome to Panoramic Content Suite 2 00:00:03.220 --> 00:00:04.060 Singapore Edition 3 00:00:04.060 --> 00:00:07.320 alongside Token2049 at the MBS in 4 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:07.620 the backdrop. 5 00:00:07.760 --> 00:00:09.860 A little bit of haze but still a 6 00:00:09.860 --> 00:00:11.100 beautiful, beautiful scene. 7 00:00:11.880 --> 00:00:13.640 But got a special guest here today with 8 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:14.900 us, Heslin Kim, a 9 00:00:15.420 --> 00:00:16.420 co-founder, CBO of Zenith. 10 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:18.360 He took time out of his 11 00:00:18.360 --> 00:00:19.720 valuable day to be with us. 12 00:00:20.060 --> 00:00:20.660 So thank you for joining. 13 00:00:21.040 --> 00:00:22.640 I wouldn't choose to be 14 00:00:22.640 --> 00:00:23.640 anywhere else right now. 15 00:00:23.860 --> 00:00:26.140 Yeah, we go way back but I'll maybe let 16 00:00:26.140 --> 00:00:26.920 you do the intro in 17 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.640 terms of who you are and how 18 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:30.640 you ended up as the 19 00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:31.860 co-founder of Zenith today. 20 00:00:32.500 --> 00:00:32.800 Sure. 21 00:00:33.300 --> 00:00:34.160 So I've been in the 22 00:00:34.160 --> 00:00:35.620 space for about 11 years. 23 00:00:36.100 --> 00:00:37.760 I've been threading the needle between 24 00:00:37.760 --> 00:00:39.140 enterprise blockchain use 25 00:00:39.140 --> 00:00:41.000 cases and Web3 throughout that 26 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.820 entire period of time. 27 00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:44.020 I was with one of the first companies 28 00:00:44.020 --> 00:00:45.520 building tokenization 29 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:47.420 standards on chain called Polymath. 30 00:00:47.700 --> 00:00:48.000 We did ERC-1400. 31 00:00:50.140 --> 00:00:51.960 That's co-authored by 32 00:00:51.960 --> 00:00:53.140 Fabian Vogelsteller. 33 00:00:53.320 --> 00:00:53.620 He wrote ERC-20. 34 00:00:55.560 --> 00:00:58.200 That was an interesting journey because 35 00:00:58.200 --> 00:01:00.840 it was the impetus of 36 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:02.940 tokenization of RWAs. 37 00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:04.580 We called them STOs back 38 00:01:04.580 --> 00:01:06.640 then, security token offerings. 39 00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:07.240 So a little bit of history 40 00:01:07.240 --> 00:01:08.400 lesson for everybody here. 41 00:01:08.720 --> 00:01:09.260 Good old days. 42 00:01:09.800 --> 00:01:10.100 Yeah. 43 00:01:10.800 --> 00:01:13.500 So I've seen the ups and downs of what 44 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:15.840 tokenization promised, what 45 00:01:15.840 --> 00:01:16.920 actually came to fruition, 46 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:19.580 what was built in the bear markets when 47 00:01:19.580 --> 00:01:20.580 there was no meta or 48 00:01:20.580 --> 00:01:22.160 narrative or trend around that, 49 00:01:22.160 --> 00:01:23.480 and then what's 50 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:24.800 sustainable over this period of time. 51 00:01:24.980 --> 00:01:26.020 So I was at Polymath as VP 52 00:01:26.020 --> 00:01:28.060 of BD for about two years. 53 00:01:28.060 --> 00:01:31.080 Then I was at Tokeny Solutions, the 54 00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:31.540 creators of ERC-3643, which 55 00:01:33.760 --> 00:01:34.400 we'll talk about in a little 56 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:34.760 bit. 57 00:01:36.460 --> 00:01:38.800 And then the Distent with Euronext Stock 58 00:01:38.800 --> 00:01:41.660 Exchange Group, had my time 59 00:01:41.660 --> 00:01:43.200 in venture and other things, 60 00:01:43.200 --> 00:01:45.160 and then spent my time with Republic as 61 00:01:45.160 --> 00:01:46.000 head of growth and ecosystem. 62 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:48.080 And then I found this company that was 63 00:01:48.080 --> 00:01:49.440 doing really interesting things. 64 00:01:49.440 --> 00:01:53.580 It was a Finnish R&D studio, Finnish Labs 65 00:01:53.580 --> 00:01:57.440 Entity, MiCA compliant, EU regulated, but a 66 00:01:57.960 --> 00:02:00.040 R&D studio in Finland who had a 67 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:00.980 phenomenal track record. 68 00:02:01.220 --> 00:02:03.600 They had done something like 50, 60 69 00:02:03.600 --> 00:02:04.360 different protocols. 70 00:02:04.660 --> 00:02:06.160 They did back in full stack for Zcash, 71 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:07.680 for Aleo, for 72 00:02:07.680 --> 00:02:10.620 StarkWare, for IPFS, for Solana 73 00:02:10.620 --> 00:02:11.800 Foundation, the Ethereum Foundation. 74 00:02:12.640 --> 00:02:14.040 They were building out a really 75 00:02:14.040 --> 00:02:15.120 interesting solution. 76 00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:18.080 They were here with me, decentralized ZK 77 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.340 optimized GPU clusters for 78 00:02:20.340 --> 00:02:21.420 the lean Ethereum vision, 79 00:02:21.560 --> 00:02:21.860 ETH 2.0. 80 00:02:23.420 --> 00:02:24.900 And I wanted to invest. 81 00:02:25.240 --> 00:02:29.160 So I left Republic, joined this team, was 82 00:02:29.160 --> 00:02:30.840 working on that for about two years. 83 00:02:31.540 --> 00:02:34.760 When ZK started falling off, I told the 84 00:02:34.760 --> 00:02:35.900 team we need to go up the 85 00:02:35.900 --> 00:02:36.840 stack from infrastructure 86 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:39.560 up to a direct product B2B. 87 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:41.940 So we started scoping out what it could 88 00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:42.940 look like to forward 89 00:02:42.940 --> 00:02:45.280 build the Beam Chain concept 90 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:47.240 that Justin Drake articulates. 91 00:02:47.860 --> 00:02:49.040 And what could that look like for 92 00:02:49.040 --> 00:02:50.540 institutions to pilot in a 93 00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:54.440 sandbox in 2023, 2024, because 94 00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:55.900 they would need to forward build these 95 00:02:55.900 --> 00:02:56.880 production institutional 96 00:02:56.880 --> 00:02:58.500 pilots take years and years 97 00:02:58.720 --> 00:03:00.320 at minimum half a decade to 98 00:03:00.320 --> 00:03:01.260 get anything off the ground. 99 00:03:01.520 --> 00:03:03.400 So if you're going to prepare for lean 100 00:03:03.400 --> 00:03:04.260 Ethereum, and then you're 101 00:03:04.260 --> 00:03:05.500 going to go to the broader 102 00:03:05.500 --> 00:03:07.540 market and try to consume, you know, be 103 00:03:07.540 --> 00:03:08.440 the world computer, 104 00:03:09.040 --> 00:03:09.840 well, you might as well try 105 00:03:09.840 --> 00:03:11.580 to start bringing and onboarding the 106 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:12.560 largest institutions in 107 00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.500 the world in a phase where 108 00:03:14.500 --> 00:03:16.080 they're going to be ready for when that 109 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:17.340 adoption comes and when 110 00:03:17.340 --> 00:03:18.220 that is in production. 111 00:03:19.100 --> 00:03:21.180 And so we went out to EF and we proposed 112 00:03:21.180 --> 00:03:22.940 this and the broader, 113 00:03:22.940 --> 00:03:24.720 you know, groups around the 114 00:03:24.720 --> 00:03:25.440 Ethereum organizations 115 00:03:25.440 --> 00:03:27.680 and didn't get so much love. 116 00:03:28.940 --> 00:03:30.060 I think it was the wrong era. 117 00:03:30.680 --> 00:03:32.280 It was pre Ethereum institutions, 118 00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:34.580 Ethereum, systems, ETH labs. 119 00:03:35.200 --> 00:03:36.580 Being too early is a thing. 120 00:03:36.840 --> 00:03:38.060 It's yeah, it's kind of 121 00:03:38.060 --> 00:03:38.980 like the story of my life. 122 00:03:41.500 --> 00:03:46.120 And so around Q1 2025, a paper came out. 123 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:48.900 Paper came out authored by a board member 124 00:03:48.900 --> 00:03:49.720 from Canton 125 00:03:49.720 --> 00:03:52.840 Foundation, as well as the CPO 126 00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:53.560 of Digital Asset Bernhard Elsner. 127 00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:56.100 And it was called Polyglot. 128 00:03:56.520 --> 00:03:59.140 How do you turn the Daml smart contract 129 00:03:59.140 --> 00:04:00.360 language and Canton 130 00:04:00.360 --> 00:04:02.460 mainnet runtime into a 131 00:04:02.460 --> 00:04:03.540 multi VM solution? 132 00:04:03.540 --> 00:04:05.740 How can you open it up to EVM, MoveVM, 133 00:04:06.380 --> 00:04:08.740 SVM, other VMs that might come out? 134 00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:11.460 And so I took this back to this R&D 135 00:04:11.860 --> 00:04:13.760 studio and said, can you 136 00:04:13.760 --> 00:04:14.720 figure this white paper 137 00:04:14.720 --> 00:04:15.020 out? 138 00:04:15.240 --> 00:04:16.560 Can you can we build this? 139 00:04:17.500 --> 00:04:18.640 And they said, hell no, we don't want to. 140 00:04:18.760 --> 00:04:20.560 We don't want to build this. 141 00:04:20.680 --> 00:04:22.980 This is totally against the ethos of what 142 00:04:22.980 --> 00:04:23.860 we were doing with 143 00:04:23.860 --> 00:04:24.880 the world computer with 144 00:04:24.880 --> 00:04:25.860 decentralization. 145 00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:27.940 They're deep, OG cypherpunks. 146 00:04:28.120 --> 00:04:30.760 My co-founder has been around since 2012. 147 00:04:31.120 --> 00:04:32.400 He launched one of the first Bitcoin 148 00:04:32.400 --> 00:04:34.680 exchanges requiring KYC in 149 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:36.820 the EU in those days, sold 150 00:04:36.820 --> 00:04:37.600 it around the Mt. 151 00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:38.180 Gox era. 152 00:04:38.940 --> 00:04:40.580 He's a board member of dozens of 153 00:04:40.580 --> 00:04:41.340 different companies. 154 00:04:44.460 --> 00:04:46.960 You know, he's deep cypher on that side. 155 00:04:48.840 --> 00:04:49.660 Cypherpunk mailing list days. 156 00:04:50.140 --> 00:04:50.600 Oh, wow. 157 00:04:51.127 --> 00:04:51.427 Wow. 158 00:04:52.140 --> 00:04:53.320 Very, it's hard to find, 159 00:04:53.400 --> 00:04:54.400 impossible to find him online. 160 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:55.400 Yeah, yeah. 161 00:04:55.660 --> 00:04:58.440 He's pretty pseudo anonymous these days. 162 00:04:59.350 --> 00:05:00.960 But you know, well deserved. 163 00:05:01.660 --> 00:05:04.360 But he's an impactful figure and he makes 164 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:05.840 tremendous moves and 165 00:05:05.840 --> 00:05:06.700 he understands the space 166 00:05:06.700 --> 00:05:07.520 very deeply. 167 00:05:07.840 --> 00:05:09.420 So, you know, it took a 168 00:05:09.420 --> 00:05:10.860 while to convince him. 169 00:05:11.460 --> 00:05:15.420 When I saw Republic do the Series B in 170 00:05:15.420 --> 00:05:16.960 Digital Asset, it's 171 00:05:16.960 --> 00:05:18.680 really what struck the catalyst 172 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:22.000 because Digital Asset I've known for 10, 173 00:05:22.200 --> 00:05:24.820 12 years doing this STOs, 174 00:05:25.020 --> 00:05:26.220 these RWAs, this tokenization 175 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:28.500 side, they were at the back end of almost 176 00:05:28.500 --> 00:05:30.260 every major DLT infrastructure. 177 00:05:30.780 --> 00:05:32.500 For anyone who doesn't know DLT, that's 178 00:05:32.500 --> 00:05:33.980 distributed ledger technology. 179 00:05:34.620 --> 00:05:36.800 It's basically private permissioned 180 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:38.900 enterprise instances that 181 00:05:38.900 --> 00:05:40.960 they're running for pilots, 182 00:05:41.140 --> 00:05:42.160 for POCs. 183 00:05:42.420 --> 00:05:43.640 Some of these went into production. 184 00:05:44.300 --> 00:05:45.540 There are multiple DLT 185 00:05:45.540 --> 00:05:47.240 instances just like there were L1. 186 00:05:47.540 --> 00:05:50.320 So you saw R3 eventually got scooped up 187 00:05:50.320 --> 00:05:52.020 by Corda, nice acquisition. 188 00:05:52.520 --> 00:05:55.760 A Digital Asset is a remaining, you know, 189 00:05:55.880 --> 00:05:57.320 vestige of that pass as well. 190 00:05:58.680 --> 00:05:59.400 They had this smart 191 00:05:59.400 --> 00:06:00.560 contract language called Daml. 192 00:06:01.080 --> 00:06:02.520 That was basically the smart contract 193 00:06:02.520 --> 00:06:03.640 layer between many of 194 00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:05.820 these DLT solutions that build 195 00:06:05.820 --> 00:06:07.260 the infrastructure, the network, but 196 00:06:07.260 --> 00:06:08.520 didn't have smart contracts on top. 197 00:06:09.100 --> 00:06:10.320 And then Digital Asset provided Daml, 198 00:06:11.300 --> 00:06:12.400 which was written just six 199 00:06:12.400 --> 00:06:13.360 months after the Ethereum 200 00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:14.040 white paper too. 201 00:06:14.200 --> 00:06:15.360 So that's a pretty 202 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.580 interesting historical on that side. 203 00:06:17.580 --> 00:06:20.860 And so, you know, having worked alongside 204 00:06:20.860 --> 00:06:23.720 them tangentially in the open Web3 space 205 00:06:23.720 --> 00:06:25.600 on the Ethereum side, seeing this entire 206 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:26.740 space grow over the last 207 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:27.880 decade, seeing this polyglot 208 00:06:28.280 --> 00:06:31.360 paper about, you know, is it possible to 209 00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.760 enable EVMS, VMOVM in the Daml runtime in 210 00:06:34.760 --> 00:06:36.760 this Canton network L1? 211 00:06:37.320 --> 00:06:39.260 I knew the difficulties that I interface 212 00:06:39.940 --> 00:06:40.580 with when I got RFPs/RFQs 213 00:06:41.460 --> 00:06:42.740 from the broader institutions 214 00:06:42.740 --> 00:06:46.520 all across APAC and EU and MENA who were 215 00:06:46.520 --> 00:06:47.780 using a Hyperledger 216 00:06:47.780 --> 00:06:49.900 Fabric stack implanted with 217 00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:52.000 Daml smart contract language who wanted 218 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:53.320 to use token ERC-3643 219 00:06:54.600 --> 00:06:56.280 tokenization software. 220 00:06:57.080 --> 00:06:58.140 So you talk to the corporate strategy 221 00:06:58.140 --> 00:06:59.820 team, the BD guys, 222 00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:01.820 they're not technical at all, 223 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:02.360 right? 224 00:07:02.360 --> 00:07:03.480 I'm a developer, but just 225 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:04.560 a business developer too. 226 00:07:04.660 --> 00:07:07.380 So I can understand their mindset when 227 00:07:07.380 --> 00:07:08.300 they think, oh, it's 228 00:07:08.300 --> 00:07:09.240 just tech, we can make it 229 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:09.960 all fit together. 230 00:07:10.680 --> 00:07:11.780 But it doesn't, and 231 00:07:11.780 --> 00:07:12.920 it hasn't for a decade. 232 00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:14.700 So that's why they released the paper, 233 00:07:15.460 --> 00:07:17.080 send it over to the R&D team. 234 00:07:17.340 --> 00:07:19.500 You know, they were like, we lost a 235 00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:21.060 couple employees because 236 00:07:21.060 --> 00:07:22.680 it wasn't on the same vision 237 00:07:22.900 --> 00:07:26.300 in ethos to go, what 238 00:07:26.300 --> 00:07:28.200 it, Corpo, Corpo slop. 239 00:07:28.440 --> 00:07:29.920 I like to call it Corpo punk though, 240 00:07:29.940 --> 00:07:31.120 because we're embedding, 241 00:07:31.120 --> 00:07:32.280 we're embedding a bit more 242 00:07:32.280 --> 00:07:34.680 in Ethereum into Canton, a bit more 243 00:07:34.680 --> 00:07:36.220 Canton into the Ethereum sides. 244 00:07:36.220 --> 00:07:39.380 I think that, that, that middle ground is 245 00:07:39.380 --> 00:07:39.920 really where the 246 00:07:39.920 --> 00:07:40.920 industry is headed over the 247 00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:41.900 next five, 10 years. 248 00:07:41.900 --> 00:07:44.160 I don't look at things in meta or 249 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:46.660 narrative on a, you know, 250 00:07:46.940 --> 00:07:48.140 three months, six months, 251 00:07:48.340 --> 00:07:49.700 one two year basis. 252 00:07:50.260 --> 00:07:52.440 Even if I'm thinking in growth terms, I'm 253 00:07:52.440 --> 00:07:54.740 thinking in the next cycle. 254 00:07:54.960 --> 00:07:56.620 So not even this cycle, but the one 255 00:07:56.620 --> 00:07:57.920 after, what are things 256 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.560 going to be like around then? 257 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:01.200 It's been 10 years already. 258 00:08:01.460 --> 00:08:02.620 So here we are. 259 00:08:03.140 --> 00:08:04.180 That's the, that's a 260 00:08:04.180 --> 00:08:05.880 genesis of Zenith basically. 261 00:08:06.160 --> 00:08:07.140 Amazing, amazing, incredible. 262 00:08:07.380 --> 00:08:07.480 Yeah. 263 00:08:07.440 --> 00:08:09.860 I would love to dive into Zenith, but it 264 00:08:09.860 --> 00:08:10.740 seems like right now, 265 00:08:10.760 --> 00:08:12.780 given the market and industry 266 00:08:12.780 --> 00:08:15.080 and the current administration in the US 267 00:08:15.360 --> 00:08:17.580 that's allowing for this 268 00:08:17.580 --> 00:08:19.460 massive adoption of institutional 269 00:08:19.460 --> 00:08:22.240 crypto, it seems like for many, many 270 00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:24.520 years, we were too early and 271 00:08:24.520 --> 00:08:25.360 institutional adoption 272 00:08:25.360 --> 00:08:27.880 was kind of bleak as I would say. 273 00:08:27.900 --> 00:08:29.960 But right now at this point, it's hard to 274 00:08:29.960 --> 00:08:30.920 even keep up with all 275 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:32.060 the new announcements 276 00:08:32.060 --> 00:08:33.160 that's going on. 277 00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:34.280 I think just even past 278 00:08:34.280 --> 00:08:36.840 week, year, super exciting. 279 00:08:37.940 --> 00:08:39.080 We did tap into, we had Ethereum 280 00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:41.100 institutional co-founder on here 281 00:08:41.100 --> 00:08:42.560 yesterday as well, kind 282 00:08:42.560 --> 00:08:44.420 of diving deep into this, but love to 283 00:08:44.420 --> 00:08:45.660 hear how you see 284 00:08:47.300 --> 00:08:50.460 synergies or differences between 285 00:08:50.460 --> 00:08:52.540 let's say institutions working with 286 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:54.140 Ethereum, institutions working with 287 00:08:54.140 --> 00:08:56.060 Canton, where Zenith 288 00:08:56.060 --> 00:09:00.040 fits in between all this lively 289 00:09:00.040 --> 00:09:02.400 institutional adoption scenario going on. 290 00:09:02.600 --> 00:09:03.000 Yeah. 291 00:09:03.400 --> 00:09:05.560 I think from a framing perspective, it's 292 00:09:05.560 --> 00:09:06.480 important to understand 293 00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:08.000 what the Zenith tech is. 294 00:09:08.180 --> 00:09:10.940 So we basically build out EVM extension 295 00:09:10.940 --> 00:09:12.940 environments for Canton mainnet. 296 00:09:13.620 --> 00:09:15.540 It's actually, this is not marketing 297 00:09:15.540 --> 00:09:17.320 jargon, it's the first 298 00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:19.520 atomic EVM that's ever been 299 00:09:19.520 --> 00:09:20.100 built in a non-EVM L1. 300 00:09:21.860 --> 00:09:23.980 So it uses state block production 301 00:09:23.980 --> 00:09:25.780 finality of the EVM 302 00:09:25.780 --> 00:09:28.000 runtime in Solidity and the Daml 303 00:09:28.660 --> 00:09:31.700 Canton network consensus is processing 304 00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:34.100 all those blocks with the EVM bytecode. 305 00:09:36.040 --> 00:09:38.260 What it allows for is basically atomic 306 00:09:38.260 --> 00:09:39.440 settlement between assets 307 00:09:39.440 --> 00:09:41.160 that can live natively in Canton 308 00:09:41.160 --> 00:09:44.520 mainnet with anything assets, protocol, 309 00:09:44.740 --> 00:09:47.040 application, contracts that 310 00:09:47.040 --> 00:09:48.660 are living in the EVM state. 311 00:09:49.780 --> 00:09:51.440 So from a product topology perspective, 312 00:09:51.460 --> 00:09:53.460 we offer the deployment 313 00:09:53.460 --> 00:09:55.280 ability of bespoke customized 314 00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.800 chains. 315 00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:58.120 So it's not just a single instance that 316 00:09:58.120 --> 00:09:59.040 you can deploy many 317 00:09:59.040 --> 00:10:01.200 subnets to Canton now in the 318 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:02.840 EVM state with 319 00:10:02.840 --> 00:10:03.900 different kind of parameters. 320 00:10:03.900 --> 00:10:05.260 You can do open public permission lists, 321 00:10:06.780 --> 00:10:08.100 you can do open public permission. 322 00:10:08.360 --> 00:10:10.560 So it's KYC KYB AML gated, but then 323 00:10:10.560 --> 00:10:11.980 people have broader access 324 00:10:11.980 --> 00:10:13.040 to the application level. 325 00:10:13.860 --> 00:10:16.280 You can do private party isolated, 326 00:10:17.060 --> 00:10:17.360 private permission 327 00:10:17.760 --> 00:10:19.040 isolated instances where it's a 328 00:10:19.040 --> 00:10:21.240 single holdings company, they do single 329 00:10:21.240 --> 00:10:22.520 KYC AML across their 330 00:10:22.820 --> 00:10:24.600 broader group, but they're 331 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:26.100 only doing payment channels between 332 00:10:26.100 --> 00:10:27.500 different entities abroad. 333 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:30.500 They don't need to necessarily onboard or 334 00:10:30.500 --> 00:10:32.180 have overlapping 335 00:10:32.180 --> 00:10:33.520 administrative features and 336 00:10:33.520 --> 00:10:33.920 functionality. 337 00:10:34.400 --> 00:10:35.800 It's pretty cut and dry. 338 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:36.740 But then you go into 339 00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:38.100 private permission multi party. 340 00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:39.820 That's when you've got multiple 341 00:10:39.820 --> 00:10:42.100 institutions who all want to obfuscate 342 00:10:42.100 --> 00:10:42.620 their counterparties, 343 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:45.900 the flow, the transaction state, the 344 00:10:45.900 --> 00:10:46.520 balances and 345 00:10:46.520 --> 00:10:47.460 everything that they're doing. 346 00:10:48.020 --> 00:10:49.820 And then that's when you know, Canton 347 00:10:49.820 --> 00:10:51.520 starts playing a major role in 348 00:10:51.520 --> 00:10:52.780 institutional adoption. 349 00:10:53.500 --> 00:10:56.380 The reason that you see the DTCC coming 350 00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:57.360 out now, it's an 351 00:10:57.360 --> 00:10:59.060 interesting little historical 352 00:10:59.060 --> 00:11:00.720 context about the DTCC as well. 353 00:11:01.240 --> 00:11:02.400 They acquired a company 354 00:11:02.400 --> 00:11:04.880 called Securrency in 2023. 355 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:07.120 Their OG tokenization providers like the 356 00:11:08.020 --> 00:11:08.820 Securitize, Polymath token 357 00:11:08.820 --> 00:11:09.480 ease of the world TokenSoft 358 00:11:10.060 --> 00:11:10.560 as well. 359 00:11:11.260 --> 00:11:12.980 Vertalo, some great, great teams out 360 00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:14.360 there have been around a long time. 361 00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:17.120 They got picked up in 2023 by the DTCC, 362 00:11:17.340 --> 00:11:19.440 but it's a EVM based stack. 363 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:22.780 So 80% of their technology stack I said 364 00:11:22.820 --> 00:11:24.580 I'd reference again is 365 00:11:24.580 --> 00:11:27.020 based on ERC-3643 from 366 00:11:27.020 --> 00:11:27.700 the Tokeny team. 367 00:11:27.820 --> 00:11:28.660 They open sourced it. 368 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:29.960 That was picked up by Securrency and 369 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:31.840 that's the back end of DTCC stack. 370 00:11:33.080 --> 00:11:36.900 20% of that is novel code in architecture 371 00:11:36.900 --> 00:11:39.160 that they have to build towards different 372 00:11:39.208 --> 00:11:40.083 L1s. 373 00:11:40.320 --> 00:11:45.100 So when you look at the use of Canton and 374 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:47.800 what DTCC has given a green light to, 114 375 00:11:47.800 --> 00:11:49.320 trillion in assets they're going to be 376 00:11:49.320 --> 00:11:50.680 bringing on chain, you 377 00:11:50.680 --> 00:11:51.660 know, small little number. 378 00:11:51.820 --> 00:11:54.300 They do something like 3.4 quadrillion 379 00:11:54.300 --> 00:11:56.160 dollars in volume on an annual. 380 00:11:56.340 --> 00:11:58.100 I've never heard that number actually 381 00:11:58.800 --> 00:12:00.940 verbally spoken out loud quadrillion. 382 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:03.000 I've heard of trillionaires but not 383 00:12:03.000 --> 00:12:04.560 quadrillionaires yet. 384 00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:05.920 So yeah. 385 00:12:06.540 --> 00:12:07.460 I mean, I think there's a couple of 386 00:12:07.460 --> 00:12:08.340 people in that trajectory. 387 00:12:09.792 --> 00:12:10.060 Right. 388 00:12:10.060 --> 00:12:10.240 We'll see. 389 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:11.020 We'll see who gets there next. 390 00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:11.420 Yeah. 391 00:12:11.420 --> 00:12:12.680 But that's the kind of volume we're 392 00:12:12.680 --> 00:12:13.640 talking about in 393 00:12:13.640 --> 00:12:14.760 traditional capital markets. 394 00:12:14.980 --> 00:12:17.640 So it's funny when we talk about, you 395 00:12:17.640 --> 00:12:18.420 know, onboarding 396 00:12:18.420 --> 00:12:20.460 institutions and like the things 397 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:22.640 that are going on now and everyone's 398 00:12:22.640 --> 00:12:23.860 competing over, you know, 399 00:12:23.880 --> 00:12:25.580 a few billion in RWAs here. 400 00:12:25.860 --> 00:12:26.660 A few billion there. 401 00:12:26.880 --> 00:12:27.360