WEBVTT NOTE Open Interest — jacob-laufer-m0. Draft: text from the editor-approved caption file (S18 approved-corrections.srt, 22 Oct) re-timed to the approved edit by word alignment against ASR of the cut; caption lines from sections removed in the edit dropped (65 cues). Automatic speaker labels removed during publication QA; interjections cannot be attributed reliably. 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.260 Welcome to Panoramic 2 00:00:01.620 --> 00:00:03.200 Content Suite, Singapore edition, 3 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:04.800 alongside Token2049. 4 00:00:06.340 --> 00:00:08.220 Got the beautiful MBS in the backdrop, 5 00:00:08.580 --> 00:00:10.340 a little bit of tasteful haze. 6 00:00:11.549 --> 00:00:11.966 That's right. 7 00:00:12.060 --> 00:00:13.300 Yeah, thank you Jacob for 8 00:00:13.300 --> 00:00:15.540 coming on out of your busy day. 9 00:00:17.520 --> 00:00:18.440 Yeah, Jacob is the 10 00:00:18.440 --> 00:00:20.540 chief growth officer at M0, 11 00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:22.800 but I will let him do 12 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:23.980 short intro by himself. 13 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:26.180 Yeah, thanks so much for having me on. 14 00:00:27.240 --> 00:00:28.160 Yeah, so as you said, I'm the chief 15 00:00:28.160 --> 00:00:29.060 growth officer at M0, 16 00:00:29.060 --> 00:00:30.460 leading business 17 00:00:30.460 --> 00:00:31.980 development, sales partnerships. 18 00:00:33.360 --> 00:00:35.000 M0 is a stablecoin 19 00:00:35.000 --> 00:00:36.020 infrastructure company. 20 00:00:37.040 --> 00:00:38.180 We do a few things. 21 00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:41.920 We help issuers with 22 00:00:41.920 --> 00:00:43.180 the smart contract layer 23 00:00:43.180 --> 00:00:44.340 for issuing stablecoins. 24 00:00:44.940 --> 00:00:46.100 We build platforms on 25 00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:47.020 top of other stablecoins. 26 00:00:47.160 --> 00:00:49.580 So we take stablecoins like PYUSD, 27 00:00:49.580 --> 00:00:50.400 a partnership with 28 00:00:50.400 --> 00:00:51.420 MoonPay and PayPal there, 29 00:00:51.820 --> 00:00:53.800 and turn that into a development platform 30 00:00:53.800 --> 00:00:56.520 to allow builders to 31 00:00:56.520 --> 00:00:57.500 build custom stablecoins 32 00:00:57.500 --> 00:00:58.160 on top of that. 33 00:00:58.960 --> 00:01:00.520 And then we bring it all together 34 00:01:00.520 --> 00:01:01.600 with an orchestration layer. 35 00:01:01.840 --> 00:01:02.680 So handling all the 36 00:01:02.680 --> 00:01:03.800 liquidity for the stablecoins 37 00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:04.680 that we help to issue. 38 00:01:05.520 --> 00:01:06.040 And that's really an 39 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:07.520 important piece of this, 40 00:01:07.620 --> 00:01:09.300 is that of course issuing stablecoins, 41 00:01:09.880 --> 00:01:10.740 everyone wants to control 42 00:01:10.740 --> 00:01:12.000 the economics of the use case 43 00:01:12.000 --> 00:01:13.340 and the distribution that they own, 44 00:01:13.500 --> 00:01:14.480 but you need to have 45 00:01:14.480 --> 00:01:15.460 acceptance and usability 46 00:01:15.460 --> 00:01:16.220 of that stablecoin. 47 00:01:16.320 --> 00:01:17.300 And so the orchestration layer 48 00:01:17.300 --> 00:01:18.460 is really what brings it all together. 49 00:01:20.160 --> 00:01:22.020 So yeah, a little bit about me. 50 00:01:22.800 --> 00:01:24.220 I was an investment 51 00:01:24.220 --> 00:01:25.840 banker for almost 10 years. 52 00:01:26.520 --> 00:01:27.740 Doing what I like to think about 53 00:01:27.740 --> 00:01:29.080 as the exact opposite of crypto. 54 00:01:30.080 --> 00:01:32.060 I was doing, restructuring 55 00:01:32.060 --> 00:01:33.060 bankruptcy, distressed M&A, 56 00:01:35.200 --> 00:01:36.360 fell down the crypto 57 00:01:36.360 --> 00:01:38.100 rabbit hole pretty early, 58 00:01:38.320 --> 00:01:39.320 like I guess like 2017, 59 00:01:40.220 --> 00:01:42.120 but just dipping my toes, 60 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:43.000 but it was immediately 61 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:44.520 seized by the ideals. 62 00:01:45.580 --> 00:01:46.980 And then when DeFi summer hit, 63 00:01:47.240 --> 00:01:48.320 it coincided with 64 00:01:48.320 --> 00:01:50.500 COVID being home from work 65 00:01:50.500 --> 00:01:52.000 and just was doing, it was in the 66 00:01:52.000 --> 00:01:54.060 trenches 20 hours a day. 67 00:01:54.340 --> 00:01:55.040 The golden days. 68 00:01:55.080 --> 00:01:55.860 Yeah, the golden days 69 00:01:55.860 --> 00:01:56.860 doing that full time. 70 00:01:57.000 --> 00:01:59.480 And then eventually left banking 71 00:01:59.480 --> 00:02:01.960 to go run a protocol as an anon. 72 00:02:03.160 --> 00:02:04.240 That's all I can say about that. 73 00:02:05.880 --> 00:02:06.860 And then through that 74 00:02:07.140 --> 00:02:09.260 met the founders of M0 75 00:02:09.260 --> 00:02:11.320 and joined them in 2024. 76 00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:12.360 And you've been there since, 77 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:13.500 so about two and a half years. 78 00:02:13.863 --> 00:02:14.163 Incredible. 79 00:02:15.240 --> 00:02:16.340 Yeah, it sounds like a very interesting, 80 00:02:16.540 --> 00:02:17.660 we can have a separate conversation 81 00:02:17.660 --> 00:02:18.480 outside the podcast. 82 00:02:19.080 --> 00:02:19.700 Exactly, off the record. 83 00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:20.520 Off the record. 84 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:23.340 Yeah, M0 obviously 85 00:02:23.520 --> 00:02:26.620 got a very strong backing 86 00:02:26.620 --> 00:02:29.560 from some of the top VCs in, 87 00:02:29.560 --> 00:02:31.240 actually not just crypto, but 88 00:02:31.240 --> 00:02:33.580 traditional venture as well. 89 00:02:34.220 --> 00:02:35.160 And you guys are obviously working 90 00:02:35.160 --> 00:02:36.280 with some of the top names 91 00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:37.880 in the financial 92 00:02:37.880 --> 00:02:39.420 industry, including PayPal. 93 00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:41.820 Yeah, I was curious in 94 00:02:41.820 --> 00:02:44.220 terms of the core unlock 95 00:02:44.220 --> 00:02:45.380 that you guys provide for 96 00:02:45.380 --> 00:02:46.220 some of these customers, 97 00:02:46.220 --> 00:02:47.520 those stablecoins have 98 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:48.600 been talk of the town 99 00:02:48.600 --> 00:02:49.820 for quite a few years now. 100 00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:52.100 We've seen whole blockchains launch 101 00:02:52.100 --> 00:02:54.380 around stablecoins as well. 102 00:02:54.860 --> 00:02:56.840 We see Tether has been the incumbent. 103 00:02:57.460 --> 00:02:58.920 USDC has been taking a 104 00:02:58.920 --> 00:03:00.200 big part of the market share 105 00:03:00.200 --> 00:03:01.200 over the past few years. 106 00:03:01.880 --> 00:03:02.840 But I think we're seeing 107 00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:04.900 that you don't have to rely 108 00:03:04.900 --> 00:03:06.300 on these partners who 109 00:03:06.300 --> 00:03:07.480 may not always be reliable. 110 00:03:07.620 --> 00:03:08.140 You don't have control 111 00:03:08.140 --> 00:03:08.920 over these stablecoins. 112 00:03:09.580 --> 00:03:11.820 So it's curious how 113 00:03:11.820 --> 00:03:12.980 you guys work with some 114 00:03:12.980 --> 00:03:14.220 of the customers on 115 00:03:14.220 --> 00:03:15.440 unlocking stablecoin in a few case. 116 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:18.980 Yeah, I think the key thesis behind M0 117 00:03:18.980 --> 00:03:23.220 is in contrast to USDC, USDT, 118 00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:25.240 which are obviously amazing businesses, 119 00:03:26.260 --> 00:03:28.140 is separating out or 120 00:03:28.140 --> 00:03:29.600 bifurcating issuance, 121 00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:31.520 which is like, I like to think about 122 00:03:31.520 --> 00:03:33.220 as the raw material of stablecoins. 123 00:03:33.260 --> 00:03:36.100 That's the reserve management compliance, 124 00:03:36.980 --> 00:03:39.760 all that from the distribution. 125 00:03:39.760 --> 00:03:42.660 And really empowering builders who 126 00:03:42.660 --> 00:03:43.500 control distribution 127 00:03:43.500 --> 00:03:45.820 to own the economics and 128 00:03:45.820 --> 00:03:46.860 really own their stablecoin 129 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:47.800 in a very easy way. 130 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:50.420 So not to have to worry about, again, 131 00:03:50.740 --> 00:03:52.920 that downstream reserve management 132 00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:53.760 and all the complication 133 00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:56.400 around potential licensing 134 00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:57.400 applications of that, 135 00:03:57.660 --> 00:03:58.760 but really focus on their 136 00:03:58.760 --> 00:03:59.700 use case and distribution. 137 00:04:00.180 --> 00:04:01.140 And again, in contrast to 138 00:04:01.140 --> 00:04:02.820 something like USDC, USDT, 139 00:04:03.300 --> 00:04:03.980 where they're doing 140 00:04:03.980 --> 00:04:04.820 that full stack, right? 141 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:06.680 They're obviously doing 142 00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:07.640 the backend management, 143 00:04:07.640 --> 00:04:08.840 but they're doing the selling 144 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:10.600 and trying to distribute USDC, create a 145 00:04:10.600 --> 00:04:11.400 network around this. 146 00:04:11.940 --> 00:04:13.340 And because they're doing that, 147 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:14.840 their default position is 148 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:15.620 that they don't wanna share 149 00:04:15.620 --> 00:04:16.700 the economics, right? 150 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:17.540 Unless you really have 151 00:04:17.540 --> 00:04:18.580 strong negotiating power. 152 00:04:19.240 --> 00:04:20.500 But if you're starting from zero 153 00:04:20.500 --> 00:04:22.000 or you already have a use case 154 00:04:22.500 --> 00:04:25.300 that controls a lot of distribution, 155 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:27.400 you have float on your platform. 156 00:04:28.460 --> 00:04:29.580 The thesis that we had 157 00:04:29.580 --> 00:04:30.900 is we wanna make it super, 158 00:04:30.900 --> 00:04:32.600 just like dead simple to 159 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:33.760 create your own stablecoin, 160 00:04:33.760 --> 00:04:36.160 robust asset that will 161 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:37.320 allow you to monetize that. 162 00:04:38.140 --> 00:04:38.780 So that's, I think, 163 00:04:38.780 --> 00:04:40.500 really the key unlock there. 164 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:41.860 We've done this in a 165 00:04:41.860 --> 00:04:43.420 really crypto native fashion 166 00:04:44.100 --> 00:04:45.160 with builders who have come 167 00:04:45.160 --> 00:04:46.720 from the stablecoin space. 168 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:49.560 So like Joao, our CSO, 169 00:04:50.260 --> 00:04:50.740 really was the 170 00:04:50.740 --> 00:04:52.120 architect of USDC at Circle. 171 00:04:52.760 --> 00:04:53.700 Luca and Greg both come 172 00:04:53.700 --> 00:04:54.660 from the early days at MakerDAO 173 00:04:54.860 --> 00:04:55.720 having built on the 174 00:04:55.720 --> 00:04:56.700 decentralized side of things. 175 00:04:56.980 --> 00:04:58.640 And so marrying that knowledge 176 00:04:58.640 --> 00:05:00.780 and like it was really how M0 was born. 177 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:01.860 Incredible, incredible. 178 00:05:02.020 --> 00:05:03.460 Yeah, I think we've seen different 179 00:05:03.460 --> 00:05:04.640 iterations of stablecoins, 180 00:05:04.780 --> 00:05:08.020 but the trend is just getting started, 181 00:05:08.780 --> 00:05:09.820 especially as we have 182 00:05:09.820 --> 00:05:10.940 more institutional adoption 183 00:05:10.940 --> 00:05:12.080 in the backdrop of Token2049. 184 00:05:13.700 --> 00:05:15.860 The ball has finally started rolling 185 00:05:15.860 --> 00:05:17.820 or it's not even stoppable anymore 186 00:05:17.820 --> 00:05:19.320 in terms of institutional adoption 187 00:05:19.320 --> 00:05:20.700 and capital that's coming in. 188 00:05:21.420 --> 00:05:23.780 I was curious to see what 189 00:05:23.780 --> 00:05:26.000 type of stablecoin demands 190 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:27.100 that you guys are seeing 191 00:05:27.100 --> 00:05:28.380 as you guys talk with 192 00:05:28.380 --> 00:05:29.620 multiple different partners. 193 00:05:29.740 --> 00:05:30.960 Is it more on the institutional side? 194 00:05:31.000 --> 00:05:32.140 Is it crypto native side? 195 00:05:32.880 --> 00:05:34.380 Where do you see a lot of demand 196 00:05:34.380 --> 00:05:35.820 and potential coming up in the future? 197 00:05:36.840 --> 00:05:37.200 Yeah, I guess I'll 198 00:05:37.200 --> 00:05:38.560 separate out demand and potential. 199 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:40.860 I think currently it's 200 00:05:40.860 --> 00:05:42.400 still really crypto native. 201 00:05:43.730 --> 00:05:45.580 I guess on the potential side, 202 00:05:46.440 --> 00:05:48.020 because GENIUS passed and 203 00:05:48.020 --> 00:05:50.220 CLARITY is on pause for now, 204 00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:52.300 but with the advent of GENIUS, 205 00:05:52.900 --> 00:05:53.580 everyone thought there 206 00:05:53.580 --> 00:05:54.320 was gonna be explosion 207 00:05:54.320 --> 00:05:56.040 of institutional and 208 00:05:56.040 --> 00:05:57.660 enterprise use of stablecoins. 209 00:05:57.920 --> 00:05:59.000 I think it's still pretty early. 210 00:05:59.440 --> 00:06:00.620 A lot of the things that we've seen 211 00:06:00.620 --> 00:06:02.140 on that side of the house 212 00:06:02.140 --> 00:06:04.280 is really just still in the pilot phase. 213 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:05.820 That doesn't mean it's not gonna happen, 214 00:06:05.840 --> 00:06:06.820 but I still think it is 215 00:06:06.820 --> 00:06:08.140 kind of latent potential. 216 00:06:09.160 --> 00:06:10.900 Whereas there's real activity happening 217 00:06:10.900 --> 00:06:11.940 on the crypto native side, 218 00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:13.060 which is really our roots. 219 00:06:13.700 --> 00:06:14.500 And so that's where we 220 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:16.080 spend a lot of our time 221 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:17.360 is helping crypto native builders. 222 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.440 This can be wallets like MetaMask, 223 00:06:21.040 --> 00:06:22.540 who's built mUSD on M0, 224 00:06:23.260 --> 00:06:24.140 NeoBanks is a really 225 00:06:24.140 --> 00:06:25.140 interesting category like KAST. 226 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:28.120 There's a lot like built USDK on M0. 227 00:06:28.840 --> 00:06:31.060 And then a whole spate of more 228 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:32.100 traditional protocols. 229 00:06:32.540 --> 00:06:33.240 Chains is a really good 230 00:06:33.240 --> 00:06:34.760 opportunity because again, 231 00:06:35.363 --> 00:06:35.988 you're starting from, 232 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:38.420 you control distribution of 233 00:06:38.420 --> 00:06:39.320 what happens on your chain. 234 00:06:39.820 --> 00:06:40.520 You don't wanna pay 235 00:06:40.520 --> 00:06:42.300 $5 million for Circle 236 00:06:42.300 --> 00:06:43.820 to come and deploy native USDC. 237 00:06:44.980 --> 00:06:45.660 Why not just capture 238 00:06:45.660 --> 00:06:46.520 all that value yourself? 239 00:06:46.700 --> 00:06:48.200 So on the chains it makes a ton of sense. 240 00:06:48.900 --> 00:06:49.800 And then we're really 241 00:06:49.800 --> 00:06:51.600 seeing a ton of traction 242 00:06:51.600 --> 00:06:53.380 in what I like to think of like the 243 00:06:53.380 --> 00:06:54.600 structured product space. 244 00:06:56.080 --> 00:06:57.800 This is using crypto 245 00:06:57.800 --> 00:06:59.300 native capital sourcing 246 00:06:59.300 --> 00:07:01.560 to fund very niche interesting 247 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:03.340 opportunities on chain 248 00:07:03.340 --> 00:07:04.220 and package that up 249 00:07:04.220 --> 00:07:05.220 until it's basically like 250 00:07:05.220 --> 00:07:05.520 a yield-bearing stablecoin. 251 00:07:07.380 --> 00:07:10.420 And Ethena was kind of the progenitor 252 00:07:10.420 --> 00:07:14.460 of this type of asset with USDe, 253 00:07:14.640 --> 00:07:15.440 but we've seen a lot 254 00:07:15.440 --> 00:07:16.360 of fast follows there. 255 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:19.000 So builders like USD.AI who 256 00:07:19.000 --> 00:07:20.040 are loaning against GPUs, 257 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:23.140 Saturn, Dawn, there's a lot 258 00:07:23.140 --> 00:07:23.800 of really interesting ones 259 00:07:23.800 --> 00:07:24.880 that are coming down the 260 00:07:24.880 --> 00:07:25.880 pipe that are very similar 261 00:07:25.880 --> 00:07:28.040 that are using crypto 262 00:07:28.040 --> 00:07:29.320 native rails to raise capital 263 00:07:29.320 --> 00:07:30.900 to deploy into these opportunities 264 00:07:30.900 --> 00:07:32.020 and then bringing 265 00:07:32.020 --> 00:07:33.500 that yield back on chain. 266 00:07:34.460 --> 00:07:35.180 And so I think that's 267 00:07:35.220 --> 00:07:35.940 really interesting space 268 00:07:35.940 --> 00:07:37.260 where we've been spending a lot of time. 269 00:07:38.860 --> 00:07:40.300 Yeah, USDC is a fascinating project. 270 00:07:41.380 --> 00:07:44.200 Yield on GPU credit. 271 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.020 Yeah, it's a really fascinating product. 272 00:07:48.180 --> 00:07:49.120 And the way you can 273 00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:51.560 provide stable utility 274 00:07:51.560 --> 00:07:53.840 through stablecoins while 275 00:07:53.840 --> 00:07:58.240 earning yield from GPU lending 276 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.040 is incredible concept. 277 00:08:00.040 --> 00:08:01.680 And I'm excited to see more 278 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:03.000 experiments like this happen. 279 00:08:03.480 --> 00:08:05.360 Ideally, on a successful, yeah, yeah, 280 00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:07.240 curious to see what's in the pipeline. 281 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:08.560 But yesterday we also 282 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.040 had founder of XYUSD 283 00:08:13.020 --> 00:08:15.080 one of the largest holders of Stretch, 284 00:08:17.760 --> 00:08:18.620 S-T-E-S, yeah, Stretch on chain. 285 00:08:20.420 --> 00:08:21.160 They're launching stablecoins 286 00:08:21.780 --> 00:08:23.720 where the users get exposure to Stretch. 287 00:08:24.600 --> 00:08:25.300 I use Stretch yield, 288 00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:26.200 yeah, I prefer yield. 289 00:08:27.640 --> 00:08:28.660 So yeah, I was really excited 290 00:08:28.660 --> 00:08:29.440 about these type of 291 00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:31.360 experiments that are going on, 292 00:08:31.460 --> 00:08:32.300 the unlocks that you 293 00:08:32.300 --> 00:08:33.320 get from coming on chain. 294 00:08:34.920 --> 00:08:36.520 Yeah, are you able to share any other, 295 00:08:36.520 --> 00:08:38.520 maybe deals in the pipeline? 296 00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:40.660 No, I can't talk specifics, 297 00:08:40.880 --> 00:08:41.880 but there's a lot of these similar, 298 00:08:42.220 --> 00:08:44.300 listen, like we're working, again, 299 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:45.440 there's the GPU loans, 300 00:08:45.560 --> 00:08:48.480 there's Stretch, Telco, Oil and Gas, 301 00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:52.000 but I think trade finance is another one, 302 00:08:52.860 --> 00:08:53.740 financing receivables. 303 00:08:55.140 --> 00:08:56.460 Like this model can be applied 304 00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:58.000 to so many different types of credit. 305 00:08:58.000 --> 00:08:59.080 Really not just credit, 306 00:08:59.280 --> 00:09:00.100 really any type of investing. 307 00:09:00.540 --> 00:09:01.580 I think it works best 308 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:04.620 when you have some sort of 309 00:09:04.620 --> 00:09:05.800 like high velocity, high turnover, 310 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:08.520 it gives a lot of the depositors comfort, 311 00:09:08.700 --> 00:09:09.800 they'll be able to 312 00:09:09.800 --> 00:09:11.420 understand the product well, 313 00:09:11.460 --> 00:09:13.740 but also some safety in the product. 314 00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:15.940 But there's a lot of these, 315 00:09:16.020 --> 00:09:16.720 really anything you could 316 00:09:16.720 --> 00:09:17.620 think of, any type of credit, 317 00:09:17.700 --> 00:09:18.220 I think is gonna be 318 00:09:18.220 --> 00:09:19.120 brought on chain in this way. 319 00:09:19.580 --> 00:09:20.720 And it's really, I think 320 00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:21.980 highlights the beauty of DeFi, 321 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:23.900 and the reason that I got into it was 322 00:09:24.400 --> 00:09:25.140 you have this 323 00:09:25.280 --> 00:09:27.180 frictionless global pool of capital, 324 00:09:29.400 --> 00:09:31.360 and smart contract based rules, 325 00:09:31.560 --> 00:09:33.480 really should be a black hole 326 00:09:33.480 --> 00:09:34.560 in sucking all this liquidity. 327 00:09:35.540 --> 00:09:36.400 And for now, I think 328 00:09:36.400 --> 00:09:37.220 it's super competitive, 329 00:09:37.540 --> 00:09:38.600 and maybe the cost of 330 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:39.460 capital for these guys 331 00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:41.140 is actually a little bit 332 00:09:41.140 --> 00:09:42.800 higher to source this capital, 333 00:09:43.380 --> 00:09:44.360 but I think it's gonna be really sticky, 334 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:45.100 and over time that cost 335 00:09:45.100 --> 00:09:46.140 of capital will come down, 336 00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:47.260 and actually be more 337 00:09:47.260 --> 00:09:48.320 attractive than traditional 338 00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:50.220 private creditor, private facilities, 339 00:09:50.380 --> 00:09:51.100 warehouse facilities, et cetera. 340 00:09:52.060 --> 00:09:53.060 So yeah, this is an area 341 00:09:53.060 --> 00:09:53.840 that I'm really excited, 342 00:09:54.020 --> 00:09:54.320 I think it's gonna grow 343 00:09:54.540 --> 00:09:55.480 10x over the next year. 344 00:09:55.960 --> 00:09:57.820 Yeah, capital efficiency 345 00:09:57.820 --> 00:10:00.140 is huge for on chain users. 346 00:10:00.980 --> 00:10:03.160 And yeah, in terms of the core product 347 00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:03.940 that you guys offer, 348 00:10:04.340 --> 00:10:07.560 is it fair to say it's a B2B2C product? 349 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:08.760 That's exactly right. 350 00:10:08.900 --> 00:10:09.200 Okay. 351 00:10:09.280 --> 00:10:10.800 Yeah, so we are working with builders 352 00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:12.040 who have their own 353 00:10:12.040 --> 00:10:13.180 distribution and user base, 354 00:10:14.320 --> 00:10:15.640 not really directly with the users, 355 00:10:15.660 --> 00:10:17.900 although we are interfacing with users 356 00:10:17.900 --> 00:10:19.320 with on the liquidity side, right? 357 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.260 Allowing them to get into these products. 358 00:10:21.500 --> 00:10:22.560 But the service is 359 00:10:22.560 --> 00:10:24.000 really to the builders, right? 360 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:25.000 So making their capital, 361 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:27.140 leveraging our own capital actually, 362 00:10:27.500 --> 00:10:29.540 efficiently to provide liquidity 363 00:10:29.540 --> 00:10:30.900 for all the assets that we issue. 364 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:33.840 And then interfacing with the users, 365 00:10:34.220 --> 00:10:35.700 but yeah, B2B2C is exactly right. 366 00:10:36.020 --> 00:10:37.460 Yeah, and for the builders out there, 367 00:10:38.020 --> 00:10:39.380 why they should use your product is, 368 00:10:39.500 --> 00:10:39.980 it seems like there's 369 00:10:39.980 --> 00:10:41.320 a lot of regulatory, 370 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:43.280 or sort of unlock 371 00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:44.840 that, and capital unlock 372 00:10:44.840 --> 00:10:45.300 that you guys provide 373 00:10:45.600 --> 00:10:46.240 with your infrastructure, 374 00:10:46.340 --> 00:10:49.200 not just the tech, but they understand 375 00:10:49.200 --> 00:10:51.400 how to get exposure to maybe bonds, 376 00:10:51.400 --> 00:10:55.060 bonds through your product. 377 00:10:55.720 --> 00:10:56.320 They don't have to figure 378 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.040 all that out on their own. 379 00:10:58.980 --> 00:11:00.720 Treasury yields, which is the most often 380 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:02.620 the source of yield that 381 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:03.760 these stablecoin companies, 382 00:11:04.880 --> 00:11:05.200 the I1, M2. 383 00:11:06.760 --> 00:11:08.380 So yeah, maybe you can, if you don't mind 384 00:11:08.500 --> 00:11:09.780 maybe explaining a bit about that 385 00:11:10.220 --> 00:11:11.840 for the builders who might be interested 386 00:11:11.840 --> 00:11:13.460 in using and building with M0. 387 00:11:13.920 --> 00:11:15.020 Yeah, so again, there's two parts of it. 388 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:15.800 I think there's the issuance, 389 00:11:16.420 --> 00:11:17.940 and why builders build with us. 390 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:19.900 So first of all, tried and true. 391 00:11:19.900 --> 00:11:22.240 I think that no one else in the market 392 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:23.220 has issued as many 393 00:11:23.220 --> 00:11:25.500 custom stablecoins as we have. 394 00:11:26.280 --> 00:11:28.380 We just have the most robust tech 395 00:11:29.280 --> 00:11:30.860 that's been proven in the market. 396 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:32.260 It's an easy way to 397 00:11:32.260 --> 00:11:34.680 access very safe T-bill yield, 398 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:36.760 either through an issuer that we have 399 00:11:36.760 --> 00:11:37.460 bootstrapped ourselves 400 00:11:37.460 --> 00:11:38.720 or other partnered issuers. 401 00:11:39.160 --> 00:11:40.860 We can handle both onshore or offshore, 402 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:42.420 so regulated GENIUS issuance, 403 00:11:43.180 --> 00:11:44.220 or offshore, more like 404 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:45.580 yield coin type issuance 405 00:11:45.580 --> 00:11:47.200 that have their trade-offs obviously. 406 00:11:47.660 --> 00:11:48.680 So onshore is 407 00:11:48.680 --> 00:11:49.700 attractive if you want to market 408 00:11:49.700 --> 00:11:50.800 to US users. 409 00:11:52.100 --> 00:11:53.560 I'm saying onshore as an 410 00:11:53.563 --> 00:11:54.688 American-centric, right? 411 00:11:55.360 --> 00:11:57.060 So forgive me, but I'm talking more about 412 00:11:57.060 --> 00:11:58.380 the US market there, 413 00:11:58.380 --> 00:12:00.000 with very clear rules 414 00:12:00.900 --> 00:12:01.780 around stablecoin 415 00:12:01.780 --> 00:12:03.080 issuance, and then offshore, 416 00:12:04.760 --> 00:12:06.300 usually referring to BVI issuance, 417 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:07.660 but this can be really anything. 418 00:12:08.940 --> 00:12:10.260 And so we can offer 419 00:12:10.260 --> 00:12:11.780 flexibility between those, 420 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:13.080 and interestingly, you 421 00:12:13.080 --> 00:12:14.000 can start off offshore 422 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:15.040 and then move to onshore. 423 00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:16.320 We make it really easy to migrate. 424 00:12:16.720 --> 00:12:17.180 I think that's been a 425 00:12:17.180 --> 00:12:18.440 really key piece for builders 426 00:12:18.440 --> 00:12:19.180 is having that comfort 427 00:12:19.180 --> 00:12:19.980 that they really control 428 00:12:19.980 --> 00:12:21.120 their use case and can migrate 429 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:22.560 between these different options. 430 00:12:23.140 --> 00:12:25.340 And then the other 431 00:12:25.340 --> 00:12:26.280 part of it is, I think, 432 00:12:26.280 --> 00:12:27.240 the other part of issuance 433 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:28.660 really is the feature set 434 00:12:28.660 --> 00:12:29.220 that we've built that 435 00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:30.180 the market really demands. 436 00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:31.440 We've done a lot of unique 437 00:12:31.440 --> 00:12:32.900 things around the way yield 438 00:12:32.900 --> 00:12:34.440 is accrued, accounted for, 439 00:12:34.500 --> 00:12:35.680 distributed in real time. 440 00:12:35.920 --> 00:12:37.240 So not like weekly monthly 441 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:39.160 payouts, like second by second. 442 00:12:39.480 --> 00:12:41.280 And all the accounting is handled, 443 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:43.240 so you have the overhead is really low 444 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:44.680 on doing reconciliation. 445 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:51.680 On-chain AML, KYB, access control. 446 00:12:51.920 --> 00:12:52.400 So do you wanna do 447 00:12:52.400 --> 00:12:53.420 whitelist versus blacklist? 448 00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.340 Like that type of methodology. 449 00:12:55.940 --> 00:12:57.160 And so that's on the issuance side, 450 00:12:57.700 --> 00:12:58.480 that kind of custom 451 00:12:58.480 --> 00:12:59.540 ability of the feature set. 452 00:12:59.880 --> 00:13:01.200 And then the liquidity, as I said before, 453 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:02.820 I think is a critical component as well. 454 00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:04.200 And marrying these two 455 00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:06.060 together within a seamless package 456 00:13:06.060 --> 00:13:07.960 where you can do the issuance, 457 00:13:08.280 --> 00:13:09.720 control the feature set that you want, 458 00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:11.860 and then have liquidity out of the box 459 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:12.160 for your stablecoin, 460 00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:13.280 I think is very attractive. 461 00:13:13.740 --> 00:13:14.040 Right, great. 462 00:13:14.540 --> 00:13:15.220 So you guys support a 463 00:13:15.220 --> 00:13:16.520 full spectrum of businesses 464 00:13:16.520 --> 00:13:18.420 from crypto native all 465 00:13:18.420 --> 00:13:19.460 the way to institutional, 466 00:13:20.020 --> 00:13:20.640 which is amazing. 467 00:13:20.960 --> 00:13:21.340 Yeah, it's great. 468 00:13:21.880 --> 00:13:23.640 Perfect for talking for 2049. 469 00:13:24.260 --> 00:13:27.180 But along the spectrum, one of the topics 470 00:13:27.760 --> 00:13:28.420 you'd like to touch on 471 00:13:28.420 --> 00:13:30.360 is the AI side of things. 472 00:13:31.300 --> 00:13:32.600 I wanted to see what 473 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:33.860 are you guys seeing there? 474 00:13:34.040 --> 00:13:35.080 I know agentic payments is-- 475 00:13:36.420 --> 00:13:37.480 Yeah, yeah, it's something that I think 476 00:13:37.480 --> 00:13:39.060 we spend a lot of time thinking about. 477 00:13:39.900 --> 00:13:41.000 It's hard to know exactly 478 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:42.440 where things are going there. 479 00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:43.300 Like we're just, we're 480 00:13:43.300 --> 00:13:44.280 trying to stay close to builders 481 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:45.680 and the agentic space, x402, et cetera. 482 00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:49.680 I think agentic payments are 483 00:13:49.680 --> 00:13:51.020 definitely gonna be a thing, 484 00:13:51.800 --> 00:13:52.680 even though the volumes 485 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:53.920 are relatively low today. 486 00:13:54.820 --> 00:13:55.780 Whether this should be, 487 00:13:56.660 --> 00:13:57.840 having rules embedded 488 00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:58.980 at the stablecoin level 489 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:00.300 are useful for these 490 00:14:00.300 --> 00:14:01.780 agents or at the wallet level 491 00:14:02.380 --> 00:14:03.700 is less clear to me. 492 00:14:03.800 --> 00:14:03.960 And so we're trying to, 493 00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:05.820 we're feeling our way around the space. 494 00:14:06.920 --> 00:14:08.540 But I think very generally speaking, 495 00:14:08.540 --> 00:14:10.060 we're really bullish about it. 496 00:14:10.180 --> 00:14:11.280 We're just trying to find out 497 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:12.560 exactly where we should play there. 498 00:14:13.140 --> 00:14:14.460 But if any of these agent 499 00:14:14.460 --> 00:14:16.160 harnesses, LLM companies, 500 00:14:16.260 --> 00:14:17.560 if they decide they 501 00:14:17.560 --> 00:14:18.060 want their own stablecoin 502 00:14:18.480 --> 00:14:19.500 to facilitate this 503 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:20.760 agentic payment network, 504 00:14:20.960 --> 00:14:21.380 then they can-- 505 00:14:21.600 --> 00:14:22.180 And they know what it talks to. 506 00:14:22.300 --> 00:14:22.980 Yeah, there you go. 507 00:14:23.280 --> 00:14:25.300 Yeah, so obviously PayPal is a huge name, 508 00:14:25.300 --> 00:14:27.280 and you guys launched a 509 00:14:27.280 --> 00:14:29.240 PYUSD stablecoin with them. 510 00:14:30.020 --> 00:14:31.680 Was curious if we can get more insight 511 00:14:31.680 --> 00:14:32.520 in terms of what that 512 00:14:32.520 --> 00:14:33.760 collaboration looked like. 513 00:14:34.500 --> 00:14:34.980 Why, you know, you guys, 514 00:14:35.920 --> 00:14:36.720 why did you guys close 515 00:14:36.960 --> 00:14:37.960 such a successful big name 516 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:40.040 to come on chain through M0? 517 00:14:40.540 --> 00:14:42.780 Yeah, so the PYUSDx platform, 518 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:43.460 and you said it really 519 00:14:43.460 --> 00:14:45.020 is a big deal for us, 520 00:14:45.020 --> 00:14:46.600 that we're really excited about. 521 00:14:46.740 --> 00:14:47.620 It's still in the early days. 522 00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:50.500 We officially launched it last month, 523 00:14:50.540 --> 00:14:50.820 but it had been 524 00:14:50.820 --> 00:14:51.600 building in the background 525 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:52.900 for a long time, and we 526 00:14:52.900 --> 00:14:54.200 have over 100 million now 527 00:14:54.840 --> 00:14:56.460 in supply built on the platform. 528 00:14:57.300 --> 00:14:59.140 The unlock here is that 529 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:02.600 rather than going down to the metal 530 00:15:04.220 --> 00:15:05.100 and reissuing 531 00:15:05.740 --> 00:15:06.800 stablecoins with our feature set, 532 00:15:07.000 --> 00:15:08.160 with like the, which is essentially 533 00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:09.980 turning a base asset 534 00:15:09.980 --> 00:15:13.640 like PYUSD into a developer platform, 535 00:15:13.720 --> 00:15:15.400 instead of redoing that asset, 536 00:15:15.740 --> 00:15:17.240 we've been able to just take that asset 537 00:15:17.240 --> 00:15:19.040 and build a platform on top of it 538 00:15:19.040 --> 00:15:21.100 that allows it to have 539 00:15:21.100 --> 00:15:22.180 all the features of M0 540 00:15:22.180 --> 00:15:23.360 that I talked about before 541 00:15:23.360 --> 00:15:24.780 with the yield streaming, 542 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:27.040 the liquidity built in, all 543 00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:28.200 the cross chain parts of it, 544 00:15:28.260 --> 00:15:29.480 all the access controls, et cetera. 545 00:15:29.820 --> 00:15:32.220 So turning a simple asset 546 00:15:32.220 --> 00:15:33.280 into a developer platform. 547 00:15:34.400 --> 00:15:35.200 And this was attractive. 548 00:15:35.660 --> 00:15:37.400 Obviously, I think this really expands 549 00:15:38.040 --> 00:15:39.800 the addressable market for 550 00:15:39.800 --> 00:15:42.340 like existing payment stablecoins 551 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:44.740 that have a simpler feature set. 552 00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:46.520 This opens up the market 553 00:15:46.520 --> 00:15:47.560 of all the custom assets 554 00:15:47.560 --> 00:15:48.680 that wanna use their 555 00:15:48.680 --> 00:15:49.960 liquidity on the bottom, 556 00:15:50.960 --> 00:15:52.380 but be able to control, 557 00:15:52.380 --> 00:15:53.340 for builders to control 558 00:15:53.340 --> 00:15:54.480 their own digital money and 559 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:56.260 the behavior on top of that. 560 00:15:56.740 --> 00:15:58.880 So whereas before it 561 00:15:58.880 --> 00:15:59.920 was really just PYUSD 562 00:15:59.920 --> 00:16:00.900 and take it or leave it, 563 00:16:01.100 --> 00:16:01.940 now you could take it 564 00:16:01.940 --> 00:16:03.700 and make it your own. 565 00:16:04.720 --> 00:16:06.360 And so I think it was 566 00:16:06.360 --> 00:16:06.980 interesting to PayPal 567 00:16:06.980 --> 00:16:08.640 because this allowed them 568 00:16:08.640 --> 00:16:10.160 to really expand the market 569 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:11.720 for PYUSD. 570 00:16:12.400 --> 00:16:14.060 And we're seeing that in production now. 571 00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:15.360 You can imagine that 572 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:16.540 this is probably attractive 573 00:16:16.540 --> 00:16:17.680 to a lot of other 574 00:16:18.640 --> 00:16:19.660 stablecoin issuers out there, 575 00:16:20.180 --> 00:16:23.020 that this is an extensible platform idea. 576 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:24.800 And so yeah, we're starting to have 577 00:16:24.800 --> 00:16:25.400 some really exciting 578 00:16:25.400 --> 00:16:26.940 conversations around that. 579 00:16:27.060 --> 00:16:28.220 Again, can't touch on 580 00:16:28.220 --> 00:16:29.540 any specific names here, 581 00:16:30.540 --> 00:16:31.800 but I think this is like for us, 582 00:16:31.800 --> 00:16:33.360 this has been a focus also internally 583 00:16:34.780 --> 00:16:37.300 in seeing how big 584 00:16:37.300 --> 00:16:38.520 these X platforms can get. 585 00:16:38.740 --> 00:16:39.840 Yeah, I mean, that's a great name. 586 00:16:40.140 --> 00:16:41.100 I think it's one of the 587 00:16:41.100 --> 00:16:43.840 largest financial institutions 588 00:16:43.840 --> 00:16:45.580 out there that handles payments online. 589 00:16:46.400 --> 00:16:48.740 And congratulations on the launch again. 590 00:16:49.160 --> 00:16:49.500 Thank you. 591 00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:53.880 And it's widely available on all chains. 592 00:16:54.020 --> 00:16:54.660 Is that the case or is it? 593 00:16:54.740 --> 00:16:55.640 Not yet. 594 00:16:55.740 --> 00:16:57.440 So I think we're 595 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:58.540 expanding chains quickly, 596 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:00.860 but right now on 597 00:17:00.860 --> 00:17:04.040 Ethereum mainnet, Arbitrum, 598 00:17:04.040 --> 00:17:06.100 we'll be on Base shortly, Solana shortly. 599 00:17:06.560 --> 00:17:07.340 So yeah, we're expanding and 600 00:17:07.340 --> 00:17:08.220 especially on the EVM side, 601 00:17:08.260 --> 00:17:09.500 it's pretty quick to spin these up. 602 00:17:09.660 --> 00:17:10.060 Yeah, yeah. 603 00:17:10.540 --> 00:17:11.300 I was gonna ask you, 604 00:17:11.300 --> 00:17:12.340 what's your favorite chain was, 605 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:13.080 but it sounds like you 606 00:17:13.080 --> 00:17:14.720 guys focus on EVM first 607 00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.700 and then maybe start supporting some L2s. 608 00:17:19.240 --> 00:17:19.580 Solana, it sounds like 609 00:17:19.580 --> 00:17:20.780 it's gonna be the first SVM. 610 00:17:21.220 --> 00:17:21.840 Yeah, we're live. 611 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:23.100 So the M0 generally is 612 00:17:23.100 --> 00:17:24.840 live with our orchestration 613 00:17:24.840 --> 00:17:26.000 and our original 614 00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:27.800 issuance on SVM and Solana, 615 00:17:28.340 --> 00:17:29.680 but for these X platforms 616 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:31.200 and some of the new stuff we're doing 617 00:17:32.260 --> 00:17:33.800 still in upcoming the next few months, 618 00:17:33.980 --> 00:17:34.840 but yeah, we love them all. 619 00:17:34.840 --> 00:17:35.740 I like our children. 620 00:17:35.860 --> 00:17:36.160 Yeah. 621 00:17:36.840 --> 00:17:37.140 No favorites. 622 00:17:37.680 --> 00:17:38.760 Yeah, we're seeing a lot of 623 00:17:38.760 --> 00:17:40.320 exciting blockchains launch. 624 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:43.760 Robinhood has been talk of the town 625 00:17:43.940 --> 00:17:44.900 recent months as well, 626 00:17:45.780 --> 00:17:47.440 but obviously it's a Ethereum L2, 627 00:17:47.480 --> 00:17:49.520 so I'm sure it's very composable 628 00:17:49.520 --> 00:17:49.880 with the same 629 00:17:50.580 --> 00:17:51.500 infrastructure you guys have. 630 00:17:52.360 --> 00:17:54.180 It's on the roadmap, so we'll be there. 631 00:17:54.400 --> 00:17:55.320 We're watching the 632 00:17:55.320 --> 00:17:56.540 activity there closely for sure. 633 00:17:57.060 --> 00:17:57.360 Amazing. 634 00:17:58.300 --> 00:17:58.980 And given this week's 635 00:18:01.180 --> 00:18:01.840 Token2049 conference, 636 00:18:02.700 --> 00:18:03.500 what would you like to get 637 00:18:03.500 --> 00:18:05.320 out to the audience about M0 638 00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:08.960 or anything, any teaser 639 00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:09.940 that you might be able 640 00:18:09.940 --> 00:18:11.220 to give to the audience? 641 00:18:11.700 --> 00:18:12.460 Yeah, no, I think if 642 00:18:12.460 --> 00:18:13.340 you're a builder out there 643 00:18:13.340 --> 00:18:13.900 who controls 644 00:18:13.900 --> 00:18:15.280 distribution, we wanna talk to you. 645 00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:15.920 That's why we're here. 646 00:18:17.120 --> 00:18:19.080 Thinking about your own 647 00:18:19.080 --> 00:18:20.200 stablecoin for your use case, 648 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:21.640 you need liquidity for your stablecoin, 649 00:18:22.620 --> 00:18:24.260 we really make that very easy 650 00:18:24.260 --> 00:18:25.760 and we strive to make it 651 00:18:25.760 --> 00:18:26.620 as seamless as possible. 652 00:18:27.140 --> 00:18:28.280 So yeah, that's why we're 653 00:18:28.280 --> 00:18:29.400 here to talk to builders. 654 00:18:29.600 --> 00:18:30.160 Really, that's our focus. 655 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:31.560 I think we think of 656 00:18:31.560 --> 00:18:32.860 builders as our core customer. 657 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:34.360 Those who are like on-chain 658 00:18:35.300 --> 00:18:36.300 crypto-native builders right now 659 00:18:37.560 --> 00:18:39.460 and issuers and existing 660 00:18:39.460 --> 00:18:40.780 stablecoins as our partners. 661 00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:42.520 And so we wanna work together with them, 662 00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:44.140 but to really serve the builder community 663 00:18:44.140 --> 00:18:45.000 as best as possible. 664 00:18:45.540 --> 00:18:47.580 And if they like to get in touch to use 665 00:18:47.580 --> 00:18:48.520 and collaborate with M0, 666 00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:51.180 can we reach out? 667 00:18:51.320 --> 00:18:52.120 Yeah, I mean, so we have 668 00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:52.960 a bunch of people in town 669 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:57.180 so they come find me at M0 on Twitter, 670 00:18:57.680 --> 00:18:59.240 I'm old, so I still call Twitter. 671 00:19:01.320 --> 00:19:04.400 I reach out through our website, you 672 00:19:04.400 --> 00:19:05.460 know, you can find me. 673 00:19:06.200 --> 00:19:08.840 Man, I'm not on Twitter so much. 674 00:19:09.280 --> 00:19:12.820 I'm on Telegram at J_0, hit me up. 675 00:19:13.180 --> 00:19:14.880 Cool, we'll add the relevant links below, 676 00:19:15.380 --> 00:19:16.660 but thank you so much for 677 00:19:16.660 --> 00:19:17.920 joining us this podcast. 678 00:19:18.580 --> 00:19:19.360 Thank you, it was a pleasure.