WEBVTT NOTE Open Interest — ryan-rodenbaugh-vaults-fyi. Draft: automatic transcript (faster-whisper small.en) of the released edit, automatic speaker assignment (resemblyzer, 2 speakers), corrections applied from the editorial glossary and OCR of the burned-in captions. Not yet reviewed line by line. 1 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.840 Welcome to Panoramic Content Suite Singapore Edition alongside Token2049 with a backdrop of MBS behind us. 2 00:00:09.120 --> 00:00:11.360 I think haze has cleared up a little bit. 3 00:00:11.920 --> 00:00:15.600 So it's a perfect day to kickstart some podcasts. 4 00:00:15.600 --> 00:00:22.560 And we have a special guest today who took time out of the day to join us, Ryan, co-founder, CEO of vaults.fyi. 5 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:23.880 So thank you for joining. 6 00:00:24.320 --> 00:00:25.280 Thanks very much for having me. 7 00:00:25.560 --> 00:00:27.440 Beautiful suite, great production team. 8 00:00:27.720 --> 00:00:29.640 And yeah, very happy to chat. 9 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:30.160 Amazing. 10 00:00:30.680 --> 00:00:37.160 To kick things off, wanted to basically get a basic intro about yourself, how you ended up building vaults.fyi. 11 00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:37.720 Sure. 12 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:47.200 So, you know, the kind of back story of the company is myself, my co-founder and a lot of our team, we’ve all worked at different DeFi protocols, worked on stablecoins. 13 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:51.440 And we initially started this company doing something different. 14 00:00:51.720 --> 00:01:01.240 And, you know, I'll save that whole backstory, but the problem that we stumbled upon at first was that on-chain APY data is very inconsistent. 15 00:01:01.640 --> 00:01:04.680 So, you know, we're winding the clock three years or so. 16 00:01:05.520 --> 00:01:11.160 Say you were trying to compare the APY data from Compound versus Aave versus Yearn versus Maker. 17 00:01:11.640 --> 00:01:17.800 You might have slightly different APY calculations from each of those protocols, front ends and official APIs. 18 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:29.680 So the problem that we initially set out to solve was how do we create, you know, an API and a front end that can give users and customers standardized APY data across all of these different different protocols. 19 00:01:30.200 --> 00:01:35.520 Since then we've expanded and we now have about 80 protocols across almost 25 networks. 20 00:01:36.040 --> 00:01:45.640 And yeah, so, you know, customers like Kraken and a lot of the curators, teams building AI agents and really a whole sort of diverse set of use cases there. 21 00:01:46.200 --> 00:01:56.280 And, you know, today those APIs span everything from the data to the actual transactions and then really granular and advanced position and P&L tracking the data. 22 00:01:56.440 --> 00:01:57.400 Amazing, amazing. 23 00:01:57.400 --> 00:02:03.560 I think abstraction of complications of on-chain, you know, smart contracts is definitely helpful. 24 00:02:03.880 --> 00:02:09.440 I think FOMO has seen their success from making trading across multiple chains on any assets really easy. 25 00:02:09.720 --> 00:02:13.480 Sounds like you guys are providing that for APY across different chains. 26 00:02:13.680 --> 00:02:14.160 Exactly. 27 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:17.800 And, you know, there's kind of two things I would say in there. 28 00:02:18.640 --> 00:02:19.920 One is on the data side. 29 00:02:19.920 --> 00:02:28.080 I think crypto data is one of these, you know, still very difficult and kind of unsolved challenges. 30 00:02:28.080 --> 00:02:40.760 And if you talk to many of the companies, like companies larger than us certainly, but like the Dunes of the world and Nansen and people like that, I think there is a very underappreciation from users 31 00:02:40.760 --> 00:02:46.560 Of just how difficult it is to actually fetch and standardize APY data, or data generally, no matter what the category is. 32 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:48.120 We just kind of focus on our thing. 33 00:02:49.040 --> 00:03:01.840 And then the second bucket that actually still is something we’re working hard to solve is the cross-chain sort of, if you have a position on one chain, you want to move to a position on another chain, how do you do that in the cheapest way possible? 34 00:03:01.960 --> 00:03:05.480 It is still relatively expensive today, but we're working on that. 35 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:06.160 Gotcha. 36 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:17.880 So does the user flow look like they just deposit into your product and then they can tap into APY yield across these different chains and different products? 37 00:03:17.880 --> 00:03:20.360 Is it that simple for the users? 38 00:03:20.680 --> 00:03:21.120 It is. 39 00:03:21.120 --> 00:03:25.040 So we have two kind of B2B use case and a B2C use case. 40 00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:26.800 I'll touch on the B2C one though. 41 00:03:27.440 --> 00:03:30.680 If you go to our website today, it's just app.vaults.fyi. 42 00:03:31.720 --> 00:03:34.360 You don't even need to deposit into our product, right? 43 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:38.800 You just connect a wallet and it is entirely, maximally non-custodial. 44 00:03:38.920 --> 00:03:52.120 So we don't have any smart contract wrappers, no added smart contract risk, but from our interface, you can say deposit into Morpho, redeem from Morpho, move to Aave, redeem from Aave, move to Apyx or Upshift or Midas 45 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:53.360 Or whatever it is. 46 00:03:53.920 --> 00:03:57.880 And we handle all of the complexity that can happen at the edge of these protocols. 47 00:03:58.160 --> 00:04:01.600 So some of them, for example, have delayed redemptions. 48 00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:04.680 Maybe there's a three day withdrawal queue or something of that nature. 49 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:11.920 We make the user aware of that and then also give them the handling so that they can see when that is available to be claimed. 50 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:13.200 Wow, that's incredible. 51 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:25.520 I think there's a lot of, we've had some founders of different types of vaults that came on the show, as well as founders of AI agent protocols that help people figure out how to tap into 52 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.040 These different yield sources. 53 00:04:28.040 --> 00:04:34.000 But it sounds like you guys have all the data information in one place for them to maximize their yield. 54 00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:35.840 Absolutely. 55 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:40.600 And on the B2B side, we also love those use cases that you're talking about. 56 00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.560 So I'll highlight one of our customers. 57 00:04:42.560 --> 00:04:48.680 They are, you know, I describe them as almost like a Wealthfront type of product experience for DeFi yield. 58 00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:50.680 It's called Otis.io. 59 00:04:50.760 --> 00:04:51.960 They have a really smooth mobile app. 60 00:04:52.680 --> 00:05:05.880 And the product experience is built on top of our APIs where a user just deposits dollars or stablecoins, obviously gets converted into stablecoins, they deposit dollars, and then it is auto allocated across a set 61 00:05:05.880 --> 00:05:10.680 Of underlying strategies that they've selected and they've deemed to be safe for their users. 62 00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:20.200 And through their own agentic infrastructure, it handles all of the auto rebalancing, the chain switching, but calling our APIs and you know, standardizing everything across that as well. 63 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:20.920 Gotcha. 64 00:05:21.600 --> 00:05:34.840 Given that you guys provide all the data and tooling for users to tap into these different APY opportunities, I was curious what these users look like 65 00:05:34.840 --> 00:05:38.760 Or maybe more specifically, where do you see the most growth? 66 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:50.400 We've also had institutional guests on the podcast and we see a lot of, obviously given the Token2049 context, there's a lot of institutions in town, suits, ties, that are looking to come on chain as well. 67 00:05:51.520 --> 00:05:55.600 What vertical are you most focusing on or where do you see the most demand? 68 00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:58.440 Here's how you see the trends going on here. 69 00:05:59.120 --> 00:06:02.760 Well, I might break it up into two buckets. 70 00:06:02.760 --> 00:06:12.520 So on one end, you have the firms that are asset management firms and they view on chain rails as a new way to attract and source capital. 71 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:23.520 So take for example, someone like Galaxy launching their curation business or Bitwise, which has their sort of, I think it's Ethena co-branded product on Jupiter. 72 00:06:24.080 --> 00:06:28.320 And they also have vaults on Morpho and another thing called Glider. 73 00:06:29.160 --> 00:06:30.800 They have kind of separately managed accounts there. 74 00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:41.320 I think for all of them, they look at on chain rails and they say, okay, we have this traditional business, we go out to investors, we source capital, we can do the same thing in an on chain perspective and there's probably some cost efficiency there as well. 75 00:06:41.320 --> 00:06:44.120 I think those institutions are really gung ho. 76 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:50.520 You also see BlackRock BUIDL, Fidelity, WisdomTree, all of these companies, they are all in on this. 77 00:06:51.720 --> 00:07:04.600 The place that everyone is very excited about, but I think if you catch people talking honestly, we'll admit has been very slow, is people allocating capital, like institutions allocating capital to these things as well. 78 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:17.760 It of course happens today, but just given where some crypto rates are today, I do think it's tough for larger institutional firms to still get over the hurdle of saying, we want to onboard and 79 00:07:17.760 --> 00:07:29.320 Allocate to crypto in the first place and then a 4.5% yield is probably not worth the risk profile of smart contract risks and hiring people to do this and getting custody and MPC set up. 80 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:42.440 So that has been the honestly like perpetual challenge that I think the industry has faced from getting capital allocated, but everyone is making the investments today so that when I think rates 81 00:07:42.440 --> 00:07:45.680 Are at a better perspective, those firms are going to be very, very ready. 82 00:07:45.840 --> 00:07:54.480 Right, I think it sounds great and I've done a lot of yield farming or looping or whatever on-chain as well. 83 00:07:54.760 --> 00:08:02.000 I think some of the tough part is the data, figuring out where to go and it sounds like a great product for me to navigate the on-chain space. 84 00:08:03.440 --> 00:08:17.680 I think it sounds like— I know nothing is risk-free, but in terms of the opportunities provided that through your platform is a sort of created set list of protocols and vaults. 85 00:08:19.080 --> 00:08:19.960 To a minor extent. 86 00:08:19.960 --> 00:08:20.560 To a minor extent, okay. 87 00:08:20.560 --> 00:08:21.240 To a minor extent. 88 00:08:21.400 --> 00:08:35.000 We, today we have probably on the order of a thousand individual strategies that have at least 100K and TVL and if you go even smaller, so sub 100K, 89 00:08:35.000 --> 00:08:36.400 Honestly there's probably another 2,000. 90 00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:37.200 Gotcha. 91 00:08:37.240 --> 00:08:50.360 So a lot of those are actually quite risky and part of that is we've really moved in crypto from an environment of Compound and Aave being these sort of dominant structures 92 00:08:50.360 --> 00:09:02.200 Where they're very curated in and of themselves to the kind of more Morpho and Euler type of infrastructure where they are by definition very permissionless. 93 00:09:02.640 --> 00:09:11.520 And so if we're indexing all of the Morpho and Euler vaults that get launched, a lot of those will be from managers that are taking on much riskier collateral as well. 94 00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:20.680 So in the past year alone, right, we've seen Stream Finance, we've seen Resolv, we've seen Kelp, I'm probably forgetting one or two other major things in there. 95 00:09:20.680 --> 00:09:26.480 All of those were, or generally speaking, all of those were collateral on places like Euler and Morpho. 96 00:09:26.480 --> 00:09:31.160 And so the downstream effect on those vaults is that in hindsight, they were quite risky. 97 00:09:31.160 --> 00:09:31.520 Yeah. 98 00:09:31.800 --> 00:09:42.520 And that's the cycle that I think we're gonna keep going through where rates are kind of boring and so people try to push out on the risk curve to have higher APYs attract more capital. 99 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:48.160 Unfortunately, many of those people get washed out, those curators get washed out when things go bad. 100 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:54.000 From there then, we repeat the cycle, things get low risk again and it just kind of keeps going and going and going. 101 00:09:54.000 --> 00:10:04.960 But at least now in that landscape, I think we're in a, dare I say relatively okay place, but who knows, there's always some unseen risk. 102 00:10:05.280 --> 00:10:06.000 Yeah, yeah. 103 00:10:06.200 --> 00:10:19.000 I mean, do you have the insight as you're always scanning the industry, this vertical in terms of what's happening, what's going on, very on top of things. 104 00:10:19.000 --> 00:10:25.200 That said, I didn't wanna ask in terms of new opportunities that are coming up. 105 00:10:25.200 --> 00:10:28.720 Obviously the meta for these vaults are changing as well. 106 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:33.400 We're seeing a lot of security tokenization coming on chain that provides dividends or yields. 107 00:10:34.040 --> 00:10:40.160 What are some of the trends or strategies that you're seeing or you're excited about that people can tap into through your platform? 108 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:49.840 Ooh, well, I guess if I were to think about what's the things that are maybe at the frontier of DeFi yield or something. 109 00:10:50.760 --> 00:10:54.680 A lot of what I see there are what I call more discretionary vaults. 110 00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:07.320 So there's kind of this rough spectrum I have in my head of on one end you have things like Aave and Compound, which there's really not a lot of discretion that those protocols and 111 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:12.360 Their governance can take in terms of what gets accepted as collateral and what the manager can ultimately do. 112 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:26.640 On the other end, you have protocols, I would say like Accountable, Midas, Upshift, things like that, where when you're allocating to one of those vaults, you're really, really choosing the manager to, 113 00:11:26.640 --> 00:11:30.040 And giving them a lot of discretion over what they can do with those funds. 114 00:11:31.160 --> 00:11:36.440 As a result, some of those yields are 10, 15, 20% without any kind of token incentives. 115 00:11:36.440 --> 00:11:48.400 The underlying strategies though, may be consumer off-chain credit with 90 day lockups, or they may be option vaults, where under the hood the manager is doing over the counter options. 116 00:11:48.760 --> 00:11:51.160 They may be some sort of carry trade or looping. 117 00:11:51.160 --> 00:11:54.000 I think you guys have had Axis on as well. 118 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:56.320 Axis is kind of a perfect example of that. 119 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:08.400 Obviously they are their own protocol, and I forgot what their APY is today, but certainly 15% or so plus, I believe, and they're doing that by taking all of these kind of stock and more complex carry trades. 120 00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:18.360 So that to me is kind of the frontier, taking stuff that in TradFi are high yield products today, and kind of giving them this token wrapper around that. 121 00:12:18.880 --> 00:12:31.880 I think to the credit of something like Axis, even Ethena has come out recently and said that they're going to start including those types of strategies into their underlying backing as well, I hope I'm right on that if I read that announcement correctly, but yeah, we see more and more of that. 122 00:12:31.880 --> 00:12:33.840 Apyx is another perfect example. 123 00:12:33.880 --> 00:12:34.400 Gotcha. 124 00:12:34.520 --> 00:12:38.960 In terms of type of asset that users use, are you guys very flexible in that as well? 125 00:12:38.960 --> 00:12:42.360 Is it mostly stablecoins or is it Ethereum? 126 00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:43.680 Do you guys do Bitcoin? 127 00:12:44.120 --> 00:12:45.520 Curious on this aspect as well. 128 00:12:45.720 --> 00:12:47.680 Yeah, we have no judgment on that. 129 00:12:47.680 --> 00:12:51.760 We support hundreds of assets for deposit and management today. 130 00:12:52.880 --> 00:12:56.360 Certainly far and away, USDC is the DeFi asset. 131 00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:56.960 Right. 132 00:12:57.280 --> 00:12:58.560 Tether. 133 00:12:58.560 --> 00:13:00.160 Really, not Tether. 134 00:13:00.200 --> 00:13:01.160 No. 135 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:13.800 And obviously Tether is larger by multiples and in the exchange business, in the remittance business, is much larger of an asset, but within DeFi, USDC is very, very dominant there. 136 00:13:14.520 --> 00:13:22.080 I think that likely comes just from better on and off ramps, like it is so much more accessible to mint and redeem USDC at parity. 137 00:13:23.120 --> 00:13:31.840 And then I do think that Coinbase and these organizations were quite intentional in trying to get themselves integrated into DeFi very successfully. 138 00:13:32.520 --> 00:13:36.520 Tether increasingly does have some pretty high yield products out there. 139 00:13:36.520 --> 00:13:45.160 I don't know that it's an intentional push versus I think a lot of teams are interested in tapping into the larger Tether universe out there. 140 00:13:46.280 --> 00:13:51.720 And outside of that, I mean-- There's a couple of Tether blockchains that have launched past year or so. Of course. 141 00:13:51.720 --> 00:13:52.720 Let's see how that plays out. 142 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:53.440 Yeah. 143 00:13:53.560 --> 00:13:57.080 Yeah, yeah, Axis is also on these Tether chains as well. 144 00:13:57.080 --> 00:13:57.920 Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. 145 00:13:58.520 --> 00:14:07.040 But yeah, USDC I didn't realize, but I guess also US based firms or institutions might be more interested in using USDC versus Tether as well. 146 00:14:07.920 --> 00:14:20.520 I agree and if I think about many of the largest kind of DeFi orgs there, either American, kind of European where USDC is very accessible 147 00:14:20.520 --> 00:14:23.080 Or people wanna be aligned with Coinbase as well. 148 00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:24.400 I think of Morpho for example, right? 149 00:14:24.400 --> 00:14:28.760 Morpho, yes, they're European team, but very kind of Coinbase aligned. 150 00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:35.360 Aave actually has a very large USDT deposit base, probably in the order of 4 billion. 151 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:40.160 Probably the largest in terms of DeFi protocol with Tether, maybe Spark is up there too. 152 00:14:41.160 --> 00:14:45.120 And then outside of that, there's really not much for Bitcoin unfortunately. 153 00:14:45.760 --> 00:14:50.000 CbBTC has some yields out there, but it's not particularly prevalent. 154 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.360 Very large as a collateral asset of course, but not for something to really earn a yield on. 155 00:14:54.960 --> 00:15:01.600 And then on the flip side, Ethereum and all kinds of ETH, LSTs and derivatives has lots of adoption. 156 00:15:01.880 --> 00:15:02.440 Right, right. 157 00:15:03.040 --> 00:15:03.720 Super cool. 158 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:05.000 I think that's exciting. 159 00:15:06.640 --> 00:15:19.560 Given the Token2049 context, I did wanna ask in terms of this coming week, this coming, these coming years, months, years, what do you hope to achieve with vaults.fyi? 160 00:15:19.560 --> 00:15:24.200 And yeah, what are you trying to get the most out of these few weeks here in Asia? 161 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:30.920 Yeah, so, you know, I was in Korea last week, I'm here this week and it's a mix of things. 162 00:15:30.920 --> 00:15:34.800 Half of it is the meme of coming here to meet with people who also live in New York. 163 00:15:35.960 --> 00:15:42.920 The other half, yes, has been trying to meet with a lot more, I'd say Asian-based or even really European-based firms that are out here for the week. 164 00:15:43.920 --> 00:15:46.320 Our big focus is really kind of twofold. 165 00:15:46.920 --> 00:16:00.960 Part of it is actually just telling the story to firms around why when they are thinking about using DeFi or integrating DeFi into their products, they should be thinking about integrating many protocols and many different yields. 166 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:03.280 There's a lot of trends that I think support that. 167 00:16:03.720 --> 00:16:11.640 The thing that we see from firms kind of dipping their toes in today is that they tend to integrate one protocol, one pool, one vault. 168 00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:13.920 And there's good reason for that too. 169 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:18.200 If you really want a very simplified product experience, I understand it completely. 170 00:16:18.800 --> 00:16:30.160 On the flip side, I don't know that this is a perfect analogy, but it would be like, if you had a stock trading platform and you only chose to integrate 10 or 20 stocks, that would be kind of strange, right? 171 00:16:30.160 --> 00:16:32.880 You want to give your users access to that whole universe. 172 00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:41.040 And as I look out at the DeFi landscape today, of course, you have the Aaves, you have the Morphos, you have the Sparks, the very large things out there. 173 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:51.360 But at any given time, a new protocol, maybe it's Apyx, maybe it's AXIS, maybe it's Midas, has a very exciting product that users want access to, is growing fast. 174 00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:59.840 And by working with someone like us, you're able to, on day one, have access to all of those and choose to show as many or as few at any given moment as you like. 175 00:17:00.200 --> 00:17:06.400 So kind of positioning us as this future-proofed option for firms that are thinking about how they enter DeFi. 176 00:17:06.400 --> 00:17:14.000 Yeah, I mean, even given the context of fundamental risk management, it just makes so much sense to diversify your pools. 177 00:17:14.680 --> 00:17:17.440 And that's a big piece of the tools that we're starting to build out now as well. 178 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:24.840 So more advanced sort of alerting and notification around, hey, maybe the largest LP just left this vault. 179 00:17:24.960 --> 00:17:29.960 Or if you're a borrower, you're getting close to your liquidation point. 180 00:17:30.800 --> 00:17:36.360 And then actually one of the things that we're rolling out hopefully this week is a new tool called xray.vaults.fyi. 181 00:17:36.920 --> 00:17:49.240 Starting with Morpho, but expanding to Veda, Euler, Upshift, and Mellow as well, where a user can put in their address and see all of the vaults that they're allocated to, and then see all of 182 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:51.440 The underlying market exposure underneath that. 183 00:17:51.800 --> 00:17:54.040 I think it's one of the things that gets lost in this conversation. 184 00:17:54.040 --> 00:17:56.160 You look at a vault and it's like, what is a vault? 185 00:17:56.160 --> 00:18:00.680 A vault is just a composition of markets and other strategies underneath it. 186 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:06.920 And so our goal there is to give users more insight into what they're actually lending against. 187 00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:10.000 Something more than just a number with a percentage next to it. 188 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:10.320 Yes. 189 00:18:10.360 --> 00:18:10.960 Amazing. 190 00:18:10.960 --> 00:18:12.880 Yeah, that is very much where we're going. 191 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:16.840 We've done a lot, I think, in trying to give users breadth to date. 192 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:22.600 And we're refocusing a lot on giving users much more depth into where they're going. 193 00:18:23.160 --> 00:18:23.720 Incredible. 194 00:18:24.800 --> 00:18:25.760 I can't wait to use it myself. 195 00:18:26.200 --> 00:18:31.760 And if our audience wants to learn more or try the product out themselves, where can they-- Yep. 196 00:18:32.360 --> 00:18:33.160 Yeah, access it. 197 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:36.880 Twitter is always a great place to jump off to all of our other links. 198 00:18:36.880 --> 00:18:41.320 So on Twitter it is just v-a-u-l-t-s-f-y-i. 199 00:18:41.320 --> 00:18:42.480 You can find me as well. 200 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.720 My handle is my full name, Ryan Rodenbaugh. 201 00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:46.520 And please get in touch. 202 00:18:46.520 --> 00:18:49.160 Got my Telegram handle in my bio, so very accessible. 203 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:51.800 We will also add the link under the podcast. 204 00:18:52.280 --> 00:18:53.200 Links in the show notes. 205 00:18:53.200 --> 00:18:53.400 Yep. 206 00:18:54.280 --> 00:18:54.520 Awesome. 207 00:18:54.760 --> 00:18:56.200 Yeah, thanks so much for having me. 208 00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.880 And yeah, talk soon.