WEBVTT

NOTE Open Interest — shiyu-zhang-surf-ai. Draft: automatic transcript (faster-whisper small.en) of the released edit, automatic speaker assignment (resemblyzer, 2 speakers), corrections applied from the editorial glossary and OCR of the burned-in captions. Not yet reviewed line by line.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Welcome to Panoramic Content Suite Singapore.

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<v Kinsa Durst>We have Shiyu, the co-founder of Surf AI,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Very exciting project that we have here with us

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<v Kinsa Durst>Looking ahead into Token2049

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<v Kinsa Durst>Before that we were in KBW together.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But thank you for making time to join us for conversation.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Thanks for having me.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, before we get into Surf,

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<v Kinsa Durst>I wanted to maybe quickly ask about yourself

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<v Kinsa Durst>And how you got to where you are today.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So I've been the crypto space since 2017.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I started from doing DLive,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Which is a decentralized live streaming platform.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And then later I co-founded CyberConnect

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And we issued a CYBER token trying to explore

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<v Shiyu Zhang>The decentralized social graph

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And the social space in this area.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So after that last year,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I co-founded Surf, which is a crypto AI company.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We sort of do the AI stuff for the companies.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Kinsa Durst>AI, crypto, those are hot buzz words

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<v Kinsa Durst>That I think everyone's trying to figure out

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<v Kinsa Durst>How that's going to turn out.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I think in the beginning,

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<v Kinsa Durst>We were like AI agents are going to trade for us.

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<v Kinsa Durst>It's going to take over the on-chain ecosystem.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But yeah, what's your approach

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<v Kinsa Durst>To AI and crypto with your product?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we have two products.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>One is to the retail user.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we have a retail product called AskSurf.ai

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And it's a basically crypto version of ChatGPT.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we provide the professional data,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Including the on-chain data, social data,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>As well as market data.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And we combine those together

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And to provide the professional traders

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And the researchers the best answer in crypto space.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And on the other hand,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We also have products for the enterprises,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Which is a B2B business.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Recently, we just launched a partnership with Bithumb,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Which is the top exchange in Korea.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So what they have is in their application,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>They have a whole new AI function

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And it's all done by Surf.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So basically now Surf AI and Surf Intelligence

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Is accessed through the Bithumb users

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Over a million users today.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Wow, congratulations.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I think Bithumb's like with 40% of the market share

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<v Kinsa Durst>As a Korean exchange.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And Korea obviously is a huge, huge crypto market ecosystem.

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<v Kinsa Durst>So big congratulations.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Thanks.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I can't wait to go back and try it myself

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<v Kinsa Durst>As I'm based in Seoul.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But nice, that's really cool.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Because in terms of the LLM,

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<v Kinsa Durst>My understanding of AI is that

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<v Kinsa Durst>There's big LLM providers like OpenAI,

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<v Kinsa Durst>But kind of the moat that startups and projects have built

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is kind of like proprietary data, open weights,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Or some sort of like data weights that they use

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<v Kinsa Durst>To fine tune kind of the model for specific purposes.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And you guys are very much focusing on trading,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Providing the best data, best possible guidelines

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<v Kinsa Durst>And advice for users, for your users

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<v Kinsa Durst>To make the best decisions

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<v Kinsa Durst>And ideally make the most money

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<v Kinsa Durst>Besides just using any other tool out there.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is that the correct understanding?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, I would say, yeah, that's correct.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So what we do, we're based on our proprietary data

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And also we provide the most professional AI models

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<v Shiyu Zhang>In this field.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Like for example, for our B2B deals,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We will post-training the model

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<v Shiyu Zhang>To serve our customers' needs.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So for example, in the Bithumb deal,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>What we do is basically two things.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>One is we gather the data,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Two is post-training the model, dedicate serving for Bithumb.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And I think the hard part is we have to go

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Through all the regulations and compliance,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Especially given the fact

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<v Shiyu Zhang>That Bithumb is a regulated financial institution in Korea.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So based on the model,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We have to do a bunch of localization

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And also a lot of rules you cannot contain

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Which words in the answer.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So that's where we spend the most effort on.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And we also, by training our own model,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We significantly bring down cost compared

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<v Shiyu Zhang>To charge APT and Gemini and Claude.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And also significantly increase accuracy in this case.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Well, you guys are a true AI company,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Not just a LLM wrapper.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, trying to do some real thing here.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Nice, nice, super sick.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I know you guys, I was curious,

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<v Kinsa Durst>With your partnership with Bithumb,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is this the first centralized exchange

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<v Kinsa Durst>You guys are working with?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>That's right.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Oh, wow.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Previously, you guys, I'm assuming would use

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<v Kinsa Durst>More on-chain data analytics to provide data

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<v Kinsa Durst>And solutions and answers to your users,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Both B2C and B2B.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But with Bithumb partnership,

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<v Kinsa Durst>It's kind of opening up a new space

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<v Kinsa Durst>For enterprise partnerships.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, exactly.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we started from the crypto space.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>After launching with Bithumb,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We actually have a lot of inbound interest

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<v Shiyu Zhang>From the other enterprises in Korea as well,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Including the financial institution

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And also crypto exchanges,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>As well as other non-crypto, non-financial enterprises.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>It's because all of those customers

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Are basically either they're interested

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<v Shiyu Zhang>In the AI integration or our crypto data.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we can see at the regulation

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<v Shiyu Zhang>In crypto regulation in Korea matures

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<v Shiyu Zhang>More and more financial institutions

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<v Shiyu Zhang>That are increasingly interested

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<v Shiyu Zhang>In the crypto data and other stuff.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So that's where our proprietary data comes into play.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And also we are AI company.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We also give the customer solution,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>AI solution to the customer.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So that's where we are increasingly popular

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<v Shiyu Zhang>In the like enterprise marketing in Korea.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Well, that's cool.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I'll be curious,

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<v Kinsa Durst>There's a lot of recommendations that AI can give,

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<v Kinsa Durst>But how far in terms of execution can AI go?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Can they actually make some trades for you?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Does it differ between on-chain trades

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<v Kinsa Durst>And centralized exchange trades?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Can they manage your assets

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<v Kinsa Durst>Or maybe just move different

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<v Kinsa Durst>Between different like liquidity LP pools for yield?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Curious, yeah, how far you guys go?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think that's a very good question.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So I would separate those into two parts.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>One is AI execution,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>But I won't use the execution part,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Does not have many thing to do with the AI part

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Because the execution is all about automation.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>It's not about AI, but it's just automation,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>How fast it can do.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And the other part is how to make the decision by AI.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think that's the most important part.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>You want the AI to be reliable

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And based on the accurate data,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think that's because in the financial industry,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>You have the highest standard for AI for accuracy,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>For reliability,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Because based on the market data,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>You don't want the AI to hallucinate

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And make the wrong choice,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>That will cost a lot.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So I think that's still something

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We're exploring right now.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We're increasing the accuracy of our model

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And based on the existing market data,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>We won't allow the model to make any mistakes

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<v Shiyu Zhang>To like hallucinate in the critical moment.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So that's what we're doing right now.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Right, right.

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<v Kinsa Durst>So building towards the ideal,

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<v Kinsa Durst>This is the current stage,

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<v Kinsa Durst>But speaking of the ideal,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Do you have a five,

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<v Kinsa Durst>I know AI moves really fast right now,

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<v Kinsa Durst>So it's hard to kind of predict,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Make predictions,

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<v Kinsa Durst>But do you have maybe five to 10 year later,

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<v Kinsa Durst>What type of AI trading or AI and crypto ecosystem

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<v Kinsa Durst>Do you envision happening?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, I would say the biggest product market fit of crypto

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Is issuing assets and trading assets.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So I think AI is still going to be playing

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<v Shiyu Zhang>A major role in this field.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is issuing as well?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, that's right.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think like the trading part,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Not the issuing part.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think the issuing is mainly still controlled

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<v Shiyu Zhang>By human beings.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>How about the trading part?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think we will rely on the reliable AI more and more,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And as the intelligence will become abundant in the future,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>I think everyone who has the access

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<v Shiyu Zhang>To the reliable AI in the future

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And customize to your investment appetite.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we'll have some customer solution for everyone.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Right, right.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Reliability is really, really important,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Especially when it comes to money.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, yeah.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I think it's one thing to chat with LLM

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<v Kinsa Durst>And get information from it,

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<v Kinsa Durst>But to actually execute on that information

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<v Kinsa Durst>When there's money involved makes,

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<v Kinsa Durst>It's a whole nother level,

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<v Kinsa Durst>But I'm really excited to see

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<v Kinsa Durst>How these both centralized and decentralized AI plays out.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, given that you guys have a really successful KBW

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<v Kinsa Durst>And Bithumb partnership,

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<v Kinsa Durst>I'm assuming there's a lot of,

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<v Kinsa Durst>As you mentioned, there's a lot of momentum

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<v Shiyu Zhang>That's building up.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is there anything that you're looking forward to here

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<v Kinsa Durst>This week during Token2049,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Any more exciting announcements that you might want to share?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is it kind of just building on what's going on right now?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, we can see the momentum

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Accumulating on the retail side.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Recently, we also have several campaigns,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Including the mystery box campaigns on the retail products.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So our user loves it.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So we'll see.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Probably we're going to have some major news

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Announcing in the near future.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Also, we are also launching our NFTs.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So basically, the NFT is a loyalty reward

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<v Shiyu Zhang>For the early users of Surf.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And we started issuing the NFT one year ago about,

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So right now we're actually distributing the NFT

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<v Shiyu Zhang>And reviewing the NFT.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>So I think that's a big moment for the Surf community.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I'll have to hop on the NFT train.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Yeah, sure.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And if the audience wants to find out more,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Where can they do that?

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Just go to the AskSurf.ai.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Okay.

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<v Kinsa Durst>AskSurf.ai.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>AskSurf.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Ask AskSurf.ai.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And they can also follow you on social media channels.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>That's right.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And will our listeners also get some special referral deals?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, we can do that.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Cool, cool.

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<v Kinsa Durst>We'll add that in the link below.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Sure.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Awesome.

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<v Shiyu Zhang>Thank you.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Thanks for stopping by.