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NOTE Open Interest — thomas-chen-bnb-chain. Draft: automatic transcript (faster-whisper small.en) of the released edit, automatic speaker assignment (resemblyzer, 2 speakers), corrections applied from the editorial glossary and OCR of the burned-in captions. Not yet reviewed line by line.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Welcome to Panoramic Content Suite, Singapore edition alongside Token2049.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I think F1's about to kick off very soon, but thank you for stopping by for making time from your busy, busy day.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I wanted to welcome Thomas Chen.

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<v Kinsa Durst>He's the Chief Business Officer at BNB Chain.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Thank you for joining us.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, thank you for having me.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Really excited to have you, but we'll let you kind of kick off with, you know, maybe if you don't mind telling a little bit

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<v Kinsa Durst>About yourself, how you ended up at BNB Chain today.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Sure, sure.

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<v Thomas Chen>So my name is Thomas Chen, Chief Business Officer at BNB Chain.

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<v Thomas Chen>I've been here for about two months now, but my journey in crypto started back in 2018.

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<v Thomas Chen>So back then, when all my friends were going to get their MBAs, I thought, why don't I make crypto my MBA, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>Because if the, if you rewind the tape to 2018, if the blockchain technology is supposed to be a binary outcome to disrupt the financial

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<v Thomas Chen>Stack, I want it to be on the right side of the bet to go to crypto.

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<v Thomas Chen>My focus since then was always on infrastructure.

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<v Thomas Chen>I started, started off my career at BitGo, was there for six and a half years, eventually ran all of global revenue for them and

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<v Thomas Chen>Put them on a path towards IPO before I left.

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<v Thomas Chen>Last year, I spent the year building DeFi for a different exchange ecosystem.

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<v Thomas Chen>And then this year switched over to BNB Chain.

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<v Thomas Chen>Nice.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Well, super excited.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I know BNB has been one of the OG chains out there, obviously a big association with Binance as well, which is the, one of

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<v Kinsa Durst>The largest centralized exchanges.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But congrats on the new role.

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<v Kinsa Durst>By joining as a Chief Business Officer, what type of focuses are you trying to push during your time here?

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<v Kinsa Durst>And, or what are you most excited about?

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, I'll tell you why I made the decision to join BNB Chain versus some of the other opportunities that were out there.

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<v Thomas Chen>When you look around, when at least as an American, when I looked around the ecosystem, BNB Chain is always there, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>It's like number four coin market cap, it's massive.

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<v Thomas Chen>But sitting there in New York, I'm like, what are they doing?

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<v Thomas Chen>I actually don't really know.

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<v Thomas Chen>But if they're that large and the trading volumes there and the users are there, why do I hear much about them?

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<v Thomas Chen>So I approached it from a, my thesis was there is a, probably a market access problem, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>There's a lot of retail users and users in general in the BNB Chain ecosystem, tens of millions of MAUs, that want access, the non

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<v Thomas Chen>-US investors that want access to, call it blue chip Western products.

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<v Thomas Chen>And there's a lot of Western institutions that want distribution.

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<v Thomas Chen>From my perspective, BNB Chain is the perfect place out of any other ecosystem, right, to bridge that connection.

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<v Thomas Chen>So that's my bet for the next, call it five years to figure this out.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah.

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<v Kinsa Durst>If I had to kind of divide demographic across the global blockchain ecosystem, I think BNB tend to be more Asian, Asia oriented, had probably

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<v Kinsa Durst>The most Chinese on chain users on chain.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But as you mentioned, the purpose of crypto and the benefits of crypto is the global financial infrastructure and blue chip Western stocks.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Tokenization is a big trend right now.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And accessing, gaining access to that is a huge thing.

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<v Kinsa Durst>It sounds like given your more institutional experience, this is the perfect kind of amalgamation of what's going to come next.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Right.

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<v Thomas Chen>I would say it's non-US.

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<v Thomas Chen>So we do have a lot of users in Argentina, for example, as well.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I think instead of given the context of Token2049 suits and ties of your outfit as well, not too serious, not too institutional, but

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<v Kinsa Durst>Can talk with the big guns.

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<v Kinsa Durst>What type of institutional plays are you guys,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Are you a lot to share anything about what you guys are rolling out soon?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah.

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<v Thomas Chen>So if we look at what's happening on chain today, let's start there.

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<v Thomas Chen>Using the topic of RWAs, we've got about 5.8 billion RWAs tokenized on chain.

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<v Thomas Chen>The vast majority of it is tokenized US treasuries, primarily used by institutions as an alternative stablecoin for collateral or for reserve or cash management.

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<v Thomas Chen>And then after that, you have a north of a billion in tokenized equities, whether it's Ondo stocks, bStocks, or xStocks.

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<v Thomas Chen>They all exist in a synthetic way, synthetic versions on BNB Chain.

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<v Thomas Chen>Most of trading volume is actually concentrated on the tokenized equities.

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<v Thomas Chen>So when I look at this R tokenized RWAs heading, what is the actual demand driving the stuff and what is the actual utility?

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<v Thomas Chen>I think from a demand equation, it's pretty straightforward.

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<v Thomas Chen>There are a lot of non-US users.

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<v Thomas Chen>I mean, I'm American, so I'm spoiled, so I don't tend to think about this.

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<v Thomas Chen>But there's a lot of non-US investors in Pakistan, Vietnam, Philippines that don't have access to brokerages that give them Nvidia or Tesla or

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<v Thomas Chen>QQQ for that example.

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<v Thomas Chen>So these synthetic equities,

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<v Thomas Chen>They're an easy way for these users to access.

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<v Thomas Chen>That's step one.

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<v Thomas Chen>Step two is what you can do with it.

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<v Thomas Chen>Candidly today, a lot of the trading volume, not just our chain, is driven by memes paired with RWAs.

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<v Thomas Chen>I'm okay with that because that's just the first step in this organic growth of liquidity, evolution of liquidity on any chain.

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<v Thomas Chen>People speculate liquidity will show up and then eventually, once we have the plumbing figured out, the connectors, then you get to more interesting use

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<v Thomas Chen>Cases like if I were a user, I can create my own basket of tokenized equities and then I can take out a loan against

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<v Thomas Chen>That desired basket.

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<v Thomas Chen>Whereas today, in TradFi that movement, it's not easily accessible.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah.

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<v Kinsa Durst>So it's very much like a B2B2C

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<v Kinsa Durst>Situation where you're onboarding a lot of providers of new asset class, a lot of my tokenization where global users can get access to these

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<v Kinsa Durst>New tokenized products.

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<v Kinsa Durst>That said, to bring these institutions on board, I'm curious from your experience at BitGo as well,

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<v Kinsa Durst>Much of a veteran working with these institutions, what do they really care about when working with three projects or even coming on chain?

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<v Kinsa Durst>What are they looking to get out of

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<v Kinsa Durst>Tokenizing or bringing their assets on chain?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Distribution.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Distribution.

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<v Thomas Chen>That's it.

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<v Thomas Chen>For a lot of the asset managers, issuers, the KPI, their North Star is AUM.

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<v Thomas Chen>So they need to figure out ways to grow AUM.

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<v Thomas Chen>Some of the challenges, depending on how far along they are, I mean, not every institution wants to be first in this, but none of

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<v Thomas Chen>Them want to be last.

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<v Thomas Chen>And there is a lack of taxonomy in on-chain finance or DeFi.

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<v Thomas Chen>So if you look at TradFi, you have these preset, not preset, but these ingrained taxonomies where you know a part of the stack which

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<v Thomas Chen>Service provider does X, Y, Z.

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<v Thomas Chen>It's pretty mapped out.

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<v Thomas Chen>But if you look at on-chain finance, what they had to navigate is if I'm the asset issuer here, my first step is, okay,

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<v Thomas Chen>I can tokenize it with a tokenization platform.

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<v Thomas Chen>And then there's this hard line and then it's DeFi, which is like you have to go find your own market makers, find your own

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<v Thomas Chen>Curators, find your own,

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<v Thomas Chen>You got to figure out how to get listed as eligible collateral and lending venues, or see your own liquidity and debts, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>That's all new to them.

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<v Thomas Chen>So the onus is on us to help them navigate from point A to Z in a very streamlined packaged way in a sales process

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<v Thomas Chen>That speaks their language.

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<v Thomas Chen>Because for them, not only do they need to know how to do this, they have to be able to navigate their internal risk committees,

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<v Thomas Chen>Internal due diligence committees.

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<v Thomas Chen>So it's about speaking their language.

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<v Thomas Chen>And we're kind of asking like a Sherpa to take them through the process.

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<v Thomas Chen>Right, right.

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<v Kinsa Durst>And I'm sure that's going to make a huge impact in terms of their decision making as well.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I mean, my follow up question would be, it's like, why BNB, right?

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<v Kinsa Durst>There's a few options.

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<v Kinsa Durst>I mean, it seems like the momentum is strong enough to a point where there's too much demand in terms of wanting to move on

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<v Kinsa Durst>Chain, and you guys have plenty of imbalance.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But how do you actually convince them why BNB over, let's say Ethereum or other blockchains?

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<v Kinsa Durst>How do you differentiate yourself?

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, I would say for them, it's not so much a technical decision.

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<v Thomas Chen>The technical decision might start with, so we're even compatible, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>So the technical decision might be, do I want to maintain two code bases if it's Ethereum and a non-EVM compatible chain?

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<v Thomas Chen>That's something for them to decide.

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<v Thomas Chen>Right.

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<v Thomas Chen>But at the end of the day, it's what is the clearest, cleanest path to distribution?

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<v Thomas Chen>And that's where we win the conversations.

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<v Thomas Chen>Because I give an example, with bStocks on BNB Chain, they launched probably around the same time I joined, two, three months ago, and now

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<v Thomas Chen>They have over a billion in TVL just on BNB Chain, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>Most of trading volume happens on chain as well.

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<v Thomas Chen>So I think that's a strong proof point that the distribution channels are there within a BNB ecosystem.

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<v Thomas Chen>I just got to build up the plumbing.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, yeah, makes sense.

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<v Kinsa Durst>It's not like exclusive partnership.

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<v Kinsa Durst>It's more like, how do we get the most distribution possible across all the BNB Chain's?

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<v Kinsa Durst>That's right.

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<v Thomas Chen>We're agnostic, right?

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<v Thomas Chen>As I mentioned, xStocks, Ondo stocks, bStocks, they all coexist.

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<v Thomas Chen>I think the challenge that creates actually is liquidity fragmentation in user experience.

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<v Thomas Chen>If you're a user in your trusted wallet application or retail Neobank application,

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<v Thomas Chen>Do you need to know that this is xStocks version, Ondo stocks version, bStocks version?

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<v Thomas Chen>Or do you just want price exposure?

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<v Thomas Chen>How do you extract that away?

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<v Thomas Chen>And then if you want to build more creative products with the underlying asset, if it's fragmented, you got to manage liquidity as well.

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<v Thomas Chen>So it's, I guess, a double-edged sword with the fact that there's no exclusivity, but liquidity fragmentation is a core issue that's top of

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<v Thomas Chen>Mind.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Gotcha, gotcha.

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<v Kinsa Durst>But you guys have the liquidity, so they, of course, want to work with you guys and expand into the BNB ecosystem as well.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, so one thing I'll give an example.

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<v Thomas Chen>One of our closer partners,

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<v Thomas Chen>Given the success of bStocks and Ondo stocks on our chain, we're starting to lean in vault products as well, because for a normal

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<v Thomas Chen>Retail user, they're not going to be as savvy as you or I with a wallet to figure out the best yield opportunities across different

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<v Thomas Chen>Chains.

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<v Thomas Chen>So what we want to present in packaged user is a one-click earn for RWAs, whether it's around tokenized gold or launching credit or

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<v Thomas Chen>Some sort of other RWA asset.

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<v Thomas Chen>They trust the wallet,

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<v Thomas Chen>They trust the curator, they know that we've underwritten it, and they can just one-click get access.

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<v Kinsa Durst>That said, I know there's a lot of builders looking to compete and gain attention on BNB and other chains as well.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is there something that you're looking for from builders or institutions or kind of crypto-native builders?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Here's where you see opportunity that can be further explored by these builders.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Of course, like stablecoins, RWAs, tokenization, huge thing on the crypto-native side, [unclear] are gaining a lot of traction right now.

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<v Kinsa Durst>If there's something that you want to see more, I'd be curious.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, my view is crypto moves so fast.

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<v Thomas Chen>I don't know what's going to be the topic due to your hot next three months.

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<v Kinsa Durst>You can touch on AI too.

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<v Thomas Chen>My thinking is, as long as we build the right culture, the right infrastructure that makes us top of mind for people to build an

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<v Thomas Chen>Experiment on, it could be AI.

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<v Thomas Chen>We have a collaboration with Amazon Web Services built in AI Studio for people to play in the sandbox environment or as privacy.

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<v Thomas Chen>It might be something else that resurfaces in a year's time, but we need to be ready and have all of the connectors internally.

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<v Thomas Chen>If someone wants to deploy an AI agent, they know that they can do so on BNB Chain with the desired outcome.

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<v Thomas Chen>Amazing.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, super excited to see what BNB has coming up next and bullish as well.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Is there anything else you want to say to the audience and people here at Token2049?

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<v Kinsa Durst>Yeah, feel free to get the message out.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, I would say, look, we're here.

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<v Thomas Chen>We have the largest distribution channel and expect to see a lot more from the perspective of RWAs natively on BNB.

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<v Thomas Chen>Amazing.

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<v Kinsa Durst>If they want to learn more, they can follow BNB or yourself, get in context somehow.

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<v Kinsa Durst>We'll add the links below.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, I'm on Twitter.

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<v Thomas Chen>I have to be a full-time Twitter KOL now of part-time maybe, so I'm getting fluent on Twitter.

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<v Thomas Chen>You can find us on LinkedIn if you're an institution,

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<v Thomas Chen>BNB Chain on the other platform.

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<v Thomas Chen>Yeah, incredible.

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<v Kinsa Durst>Thank you for joining.

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<v Thomas Chen>Thank you.